<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: &#8220;We must &#8230;accept or reject the faith of our fathers on its own merit&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:08:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-423634</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-423634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carol-
Good to pick up on that quote. I was such a rebel but I looked around (as a tail-end baby boomer) and saw all these people rebelling in exactly the same way! (long hair, drugs, sex, bell bottoms - drugs &amp; sex being the only truly bad things there). So, I became a counter rebel, cut my hair short and started wearing white shirts and straight-leg jeans, dark slacks with a narrow tie on Sunday - paying attention in Seminary, etc. A few people thought I was on drugs. Anyway, I figured out my own testimony through a long process (still ongoing). Yes, we all have to do it in our own way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carol-<br />
Good to pick up on that quote. I was such a rebel but I looked around (as a tail-end baby boomer) and saw all these people rebelling in exactly the same way! (long hair, drugs, sex, bell bottoms &#8211; drugs &amp; sex being the only truly bad things there). So, I became a counter rebel, cut my hair short and started wearing white shirts and straight-leg jeans, dark slacks with a narrow tie on Sunday &#8211; paying attention in Seminary, etc. A few people thought I was on drugs. Anyway, I figured out my own testimony through a long process (still ongoing). Yes, we all have to do it in our own way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-423566</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-423566</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;it is well also to learn vicariously, by observing the fruits of religious living in the lives of others.&quot;

This is wise.  When I was a teenager, so many kids around me used the idea &quot;we have to try things to see if they&#039;re good or bad&quot; to excuse using drugs or sex. Well, now they know.  I guess earth life is meant to teach some people in the only way they will learn.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;it is well also to learn vicariously, by observing the fruits of religious living in the lives of others.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is wise.  When I was a teenager, so many kids around me used the idea &#8220;we have to try things to see if they&#8217;re good or bad&#8221; to excuse using drugs or sex. Well, now they know.  I guess earth life is meant to teach some people in the only way they will learn.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-423553</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-423553</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wanted to echo the thoughts that Marilyn expressed. Keepa has been for me, one of those &quot;graces of God&quot; that has allowed me to step away from the emotional baggage that much of my teenage feelings about Utah, and gain a better understanding of the history of &quot;ordinary members.&quot;  I can&#039;t imagine another way that I would have found the treasures written by my spiritual ancestors. 

I do wish that there was a side blog or tab that had a place to &quot;Ask Ardis&quot; about things that are from older posts, and to also be able to express gratitude for both current content, and the richness of the archives. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to echo the thoughts that Marilyn expressed. Keepa has been for me, one of those &#8220;graces of God&#8221; that has allowed me to step away from the emotional baggage that much of my teenage feelings about Utah, and gain a better understanding of the history of &#8220;ordinary members.&#8221;  I can&#8217;t imagine another way that I would have found the treasures written by my spiritual ancestors. </p>
<p>I do wish that there was a side blog or tab that had a place to &#8220;Ask Ardis&#8221; about things that are from older posts, and to also be able to express gratitude for both current content, and the richness of the archives. <img src='http://www.keepapitchinin.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-423538</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-423538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think for most people who grow up in any church, by the time the graduated from high school, will have lived the &quot;religion of their parents&quot; long enough to have seen the consequences of that religion in their lives. I think it might be over simplifying it to say that experiences growing up in any religion can be categorized by whether certain people, parents or others, are &quot;jerks&quot; or not. Certainly personal experiences in families, with leaders or congregations may lead a young person to see the faith of their fathers in less than positive terms. 

I have had a number of friends who were introduced to the gospel through our friendship, and who have been taught by the missionaries in my home. A number of times I have heard the missionaries ask my friends about their religious experiences growing up, and then take those less positive aspects of their experiences, and explain how the gospel and our LDS doctrine and church structure are more in line with the teachings of Christ. With only two exceptions, these friends did not know me as a teenager, and so I have always struggled with how open I should be about me experiences growing up in my family and ward(s). (I lived in the same house from 3-18, but because of ward boundary changes was part of three different wards.)

Certainly the missionaries teaching my friends have been sincere in wanting to contrast churches who do not have prophets, the restoration of priesthood keys, and the additional light and knowledge of the gospel, beyond just the Bible, in our canonized scripture. Still, I have wondered what those missionaries would say about my personal experiences as a child and teenager, if they did not know that I was raised LDS. 

Certainly my &quot;lived experience&quot; with the gospel, during my childhood, has led me to reject the faith of my father and most of the ward leaders I knew as a teenager. It is only because of my personal relationship with my Heavenly Parents, and Their request that I continue to labor in &quot;this part of the vineyard,&quot; that I have stayed active. I have had to wrestle with myself and angels to reach that decision, but I do not blame others for having come to the opposite conclusion. After our shared experiences, it is not surprising to me that most of my cohort turned their backs on the religion of their parents. This lesson, as the discussions I have listened to as my friends have investigated the gospel, continues to convinced me that if the joy we feel at the souls we bring to Christ will bring us great joy, so will those who we have chased away from the church bring us despair. 

I was already thinking about this before I read Grant&#039;s comment, but felt prompted to share my thoughts, rather than keeping them to myself. Certainly it is good when adults, whose early experiences with their parents and the church are not positive, have the chance to find other experiences that make the gospel come alive for them in other ways. It is not easy to find a few drops of truth in a rainstorm of abuse from a variety of sources. 

When I listen to the stories of those who have left, who had either similar social stigmatization as children and teenagers, or the abuse by a parent or siblings, I find no place to judge them. They could easily follow all of the steps outlined in this lesson, and not receive the same spiritual experiences I did, and easily have decided that the faith of their fathers was too destructive to them spiritually and emotionally. Some may find their way back, and I would support them in that decision, but I also see that many of my former Sunday School classmates are living much happier lives, and providing much less abusive environments than we grew up in. Often when I spend time thinking about those experiences that I clung to through each crisis of faith, I know that for me, I did reject the way the faith was lived by my parents when they were married. I reject the sociality of the ward(s) I was a teenager in. I reject the unrighteousness dominion of my father and a number of priesthood leaders from my childhood and teenage years. But for the Grace of God, (and for me that Grace came from knowing the spiritual &quot;voice&quot; of my Heavenly Mother) I very easily could have left the LDS church, without looking back, by following the process laid out in this lesson.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think for most people who grow up in any church, by the time the graduated from high school, will have lived the &#8220;religion of their parents&#8221; long enough to have seen the consequences of that religion in their lives. I think it might be over simplifying it to say that experiences growing up in any religion can be categorized by whether certain people, parents or others, are &#8220;jerks&#8221; or not. Certainly personal experiences in families, with leaders or congregations may lead a young person to see the faith of their fathers in less than positive terms. </p>
<p>I have had a number of friends who were introduced to the gospel through our friendship, and who have been taught by the missionaries in my home. A number of times I have heard the missionaries ask my friends about their religious experiences growing up, and then take those less positive aspects of their experiences, and explain how the gospel and our LDS doctrine and church structure are more in line with the teachings of Christ. With only two exceptions, these friends did not know me as a teenager, and so I have always struggled with how open I should be about me experiences growing up in my family and ward(s). (I lived in the same house from 3-18, but because of ward boundary changes was part of three different wards.)</p>
<p>Certainly the missionaries teaching my friends have been sincere in wanting to contrast churches who do not have prophets, the restoration of priesthood keys, and the additional light and knowledge of the gospel, beyond just the Bible, in our canonized scripture. Still, I have wondered what those missionaries would say about my personal experiences as a child and teenager, if they did not know that I was raised LDS. </p>
<p>Certainly my &#8220;lived experience&#8221; with the gospel, during my childhood, has led me to reject the faith of my father and most of the ward leaders I knew as a teenager. It is only because of my personal relationship with my Heavenly Parents, and Their request that I continue to labor in &#8220;this part of the vineyard,&#8221; that I have stayed active. I have had to wrestle with myself and angels to reach that decision, but I do not blame others for having come to the opposite conclusion. After our shared experiences, it is not surprising to me that most of my cohort turned their backs on the religion of their parents. This lesson, as the discussions I have listened to as my friends have investigated the gospel, continues to convinced me that if the joy we feel at the souls we bring to Christ will bring us great joy, so will those who we have chased away from the church bring us despair. </p>
<p>I was already thinking about this before I read Grant&#8217;s comment, but felt prompted to share my thoughts, rather than keeping them to myself. Certainly it is good when adults, whose early experiences with their parents and the church are not positive, have the chance to find other experiences that make the gospel come alive for them in other ways. It is not easy to find a few drops of truth in a rainstorm of abuse from a variety of sources. </p>
<p>When I listen to the stories of those who have left, who had either similar social stigmatization as children and teenagers, or the abuse by a parent or siblings, I find no place to judge them. They could easily follow all of the steps outlined in this lesson, and not receive the same spiritual experiences I did, and easily have decided that the faith of their fathers was too destructive to them spiritually and emotionally. Some may find their way back, and I would support them in that decision, but I also see that many of my former Sunday School classmates are living much happier lives, and providing much less abusive environments than we grew up in. Often when I spend time thinking about those experiences that I clung to through each crisis of faith, I know that for me, I did reject the way the faith was lived by my parents when they were married. I reject the sociality of the ward(s) I was a teenager in. I reject the unrighteousness dominion of my father and a number of priesthood leaders from my childhood and teenage years. But for the Grace of God, (and for me that Grace came from knowing the spiritual &#8220;voice&#8221; of my Heavenly Mother) I very easily could have left the LDS church, without looking back, by following the process laid out in this lesson.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-423087</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 01:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-423087</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, I ran into Ardis at lunch today (true story) which is really cool, and I asked her, &quot;Can you reject the faith of your fathers and then accept it on totally different terms in the same church.&quot; And she, realizing I was posing her a lawyer&#039;s question answered wisely, &quot;I guess that depends on how you do it.&quot; I thought (and I think I said something about) &quot;Oh, yeah. That honor your parents thing.&quot;

My point is some people leave the church because their parents can be real jerks sometimes. (I hope my kids aren&#039;t getting any ideas.) But if they would only apply their own reason, experience, and the spiritual/feeling/intuitive aspect, they can still hold on to truth - that whole Apostle Paul thing - &quot;Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.&quot;

But still, the really cool part was running into my friend, Ardis!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, I ran into Ardis at lunch today (true story) which is really cool, and I asked her, &#8220;Can you reject the faith of your fathers and then accept it on totally different terms in the same church.&#8221; And she, realizing I was posing her a lawyer&#8217;s question answered wisely, &#8220;I guess that depends on how you do it.&#8221; I thought (and I think I said something about) &#8220;Oh, yeah. That honor your parents thing.&#8221;</p>
<p>My point is some people leave the church because their parents can be real jerks sometimes. (I hope my kids aren&#8217;t getting any ideas.) But if they would only apply their own reason, experience, and the spiritual/feeling/intuitive aspect, they can still hold on to truth &#8211; that whole Apostle Paul thing &#8211; &#8220;Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.&#8221;</p>
<p>But still, the really cool part was running into my friend, Ardis!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-422945</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 21:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-422945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The genius of Lowell Bennion. You know he had to practice what he preached to be able to outline it this clearly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The genius of Lowell Bennion. You know he had to practice what he preached to be able to outline it this clearly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Other Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-422889</link>
		<dc:creator>The Other Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-422889</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This article is one of the very few I&#039;ve come across explaining in simple terms what it means to &quot;learn by study and faith&quot; and how the two can complement each other.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is one of the very few I&#8217;ve come across explaining in simple terms what it means to &#8220;learn by study and faith&#8221; and how the two can complement each other.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Y.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-422835</link>
		<dc:creator>David Y.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-422835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, I agree that Brigham&#039;s is an important example of a reasoned and deliberative approach to religious inquiry.  Aside from whatever else one might think of Pioneer Prophet, I think Turner does an excellent job of highlighting Brigham&#039;s thoughtful approach to conversion.  (And what a conversion it is!)

And a hear, hear, and amen to Marilyn O&#039;s ecstatic response to finding Keepapitchinin.  It&#039;s a really great place, isn&#039;t it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I agree that Brigham&#8217;s is an important example of a reasoned and deliberative approach to religious inquiry.  Aside from whatever else one might think of Pioneer Prophet, I think Turner does an excellent job of highlighting Brigham&#8217;s thoughtful approach to conversion.  (And what a conversion it is!)</p>
<p>And a hear, hear, and amen to Marilyn O&#8217;s ecstatic response to finding Keepapitchinin.  It&#8217;s a really great place, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-422750</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-422750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David, thanks for such a thoughtful response. As long as the Bloggernacle has been talking about Brigham Young so much recently, I think he makes a good example of the exercise of experience and reason. I doubt he would have accepted the gospel had not the emotional element been there, too, but his long investigation and reading of the Book of Mormon before baptism, and his talks throughout life that return again and again to the experiences of the Saints, indicate (to me) his natural paths of learning truth.

Marilyn, comments like yours are so fun to read!  Keepa has been going now for something like four years, and in the beginning the comments were full of  the same enthusiasm and response to novelty that yours shows here -- this way of looking at our past was new to all of us then. But the novelty has worn off for most regular readers so I don&#039;t very often hear the rush of enjoyment anymore. Thanks for igniting it again!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, thanks for such a thoughtful response. As long as the Bloggernacle has been talking about Brigham Young so much recently, I think he makes a good example of the exercise of experience and reason. I doubt he would have accepted the gospel had not the emotional element been there, too, but his long investigation and reading of the Book of Mormon before baptism, and his talks throughout life that return again and again to the experiences of the Saints, indicate (to me) his natural paths of learning truth.</p>
<p>Marilyn, comments like yours are so fun to read!  Keepa has been going now for something like four years, and in the beginning the comments were full of  the same enthusiasm and response to novelty that yours shows here &#8212; this way of looking at our past was new to all of us then. But the novelty has worn off for most regular readers so I don&#8217;t very often hear the rush of enjoyment anymore. Thanks for igniting it again!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Marilyn O.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2013/02/14/we-must-accept-or-reject-the-faith-of-our-fathers-on-its-own-merit/comment-page-1/#comment-422715</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilyn O.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 16:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19816#comment-422715</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for these daily gems of doctrine, humor, poetry, fiction, music, photography, and . . .  (trying to think of a category name for flies, constipation, and bandlos).  I don&#039;t have anything to add or discuss most days, but find myself wishing that you had some sort of little gratitude box I could initial each time to convey, &quot;This was great! Thanks!&quot; There&#039;s something about a really good read that makes you want to write in the margin--leave some sort of fingerprint--a bit like erecting a tiny, personal flag on the South Pole after the journey.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for these daily gems of doctrine, humor, poetry, fiction, music, photography, and . . .  (trying to think of a category name for flies, constipation, and bandlos).  I don&#8217;t have anything to add or discuss most days, but find myself wishing that you had some sort of little gratitude box I could initial each time to convey, &#8220;This was great! Thanks!&#8221; There&#8217;s something about a really good read that makes you want to write in the margin&#8211;leave some sort of fingerprint&#8211;a bit like erecting a tiny, personal flag on the South Pole after the journey.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
