<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Ethics for Young Girls: Lesson 14: Punctuality</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 02:22:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/comment-page-1/#comment-324303</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17554#comment-324303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just wanted to be sure it was clear why I was posting them -- casual visitors might not understand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to be sure it was clear why I was posting them &#8212; casual visitors might not understand.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/comment-page-1/#comment-324299</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17554#comment-324299</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis, I am sorry if it seemed like I was saying you agreed with them. For me, this has been such a pet peeve, and I have endeavored on a number of occasions to use behavior modification techniques thinking that I was &quot;perfecting the saints,&quot; in doing so. I was of course focused on their sliver and missing my eye&#039;s beam. 

I still think that for leadership meetings and administrative purposes it is important, but after a conversation with a sister who I had been very judgmental of (thank goodness only in my own mind) who was constantly coming to sacrament meeting just as the sacrament hymn was being sung, I look at how and when people get to meetings much differently. The details don&#039;t matter, but the ordeal it was for her to come to any activity, made me pretty humble about how easy it was for me to get to activities and meetings. Now that I can&#039;t be there, that lesson is even more poignant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis, I am sorry if it seemed like I was saying you agreed with them. For me, this has been such a pet peeve, and I have endeavored on a number of occasions to use behavior modification techniques thinking that I was &#8220;perfecting the saints,&#8221; in doing so. I was of course focused on their sliver and missing my eye&#8217;s beam. </p>
<p>I still think that for leadership meetings and administrative purposes it is important, but after a conversation with a sister who I had been very judgmental of (thank goodness only in my own mind) who was constantly coming to sacrament meeting just as the sacrament hymn was being sung, I look at how and when people get to meetings much differently. The details don&#8217;t matter, but the ordeal it was for her to come to any activity, made me pretty humble about how easy it was for me to get to activities and meetings. Now that I can&#8217;t be there, that lesson is even more poignant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/comment-page-1/#comment-324268</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17554#comment-324268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amy&#039;s comment about tardiness being a form of passive-aggressiveness has opened up a whole new understanding for me about people I have known who have come late to church their entire lives. Thanks Amy, and Ardis for the OP.  Most illuminating!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy&#8217;s comment about tardiness being a form of passive-aggressiveness has opened up a whole new understanding for me about people I have known who have come late to church their entire lives. Thanks Amy, and Ardis for the OP.  Most illuminating!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/comment-page-1/#comment-324239</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17554#comment-324239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Julia, then your response is pretty typical. From the first lesson in this series, readers have noted that the basic idea is fine (as HokieKate notes, punctuality is *still* a difficult problem, and she&#039;d have no problem getting behind a lesson to promote punctuality. I wouldn&#039;t either.

However, most of the specific lessons, others far more than this one, include reasoning and examples that are a bit, um, &quot;off,&quot; shall we say. I think it&#039;s that &quot;offness&quot; that you&#039;re responding to.

It&#039;s probably understood by all that I don&#039;t post lessons like this as doctrinally correct or as a blueprint for something anybody should do in a ward today. But I think it&#039;s fun to see both how we are like our great-grandparents (we&#039;re late!) and how we are different (kicking back against the specifics in some lessons).  I just like to see how things worked in the past.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julia, then your response is pretty typical. From the first lesson in this series, readers have noted that the basic idea is fine (as HokieKate notes, punctuality is *still* a difficult problem, and she&#8217;d have no problem getting behind a lesson to promote punctuality. I wouldn&#8217;t either.</p>
<p>However, most of the specific lessons, others far more than this one, include reasoning and examples that are a bit, um, &#8220;off,&#8221; shall we say. I think it&#8217;s that &#8220;offness&#8221; that you&#8217;re responding to.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably understood by all that I don&#8217;t post lessons like this as doctrinally correct or as a blueprint for something anybody should do in a ward today. But I think it&#8217;s fun to see both how we are like our great-grandparents (we&#8217;re late!) and how we are different (kicking back against the specifics in some lessons).  I just like to see how things worked in the past.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/comment-page-1/#comment-324220</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17554#comment-324220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A lesson to rant against, and a Thoroughly Modern Millie quote?  My cup runeth over. ;-) My mom loves the movie, and although it is firmly fixed in my mind as part of having mono (my mom had gotten a VHS of the movie about two weeks before I got it) I still enjoy &quot;Shoo Show&quot;ing my kids when I don&#039;t want them to argue about something that just has to be done now, without time for arguing. 

Which brings me to punctuality. I think that this lesson actually does a disservice in how it presents the problem. Certainly being on time and prepared are important and I try to always be early, since things do come up. I have had great luck in many callings by letting people know that I will start on time without them, and that only people who are on time will get the cookies or dessert I bring, since I will be putting them away as soon as it is time to start. 

(I have only had to strictly implement that part when I have had scout committee callings, and that was actually only aimed at having the bishopric member, in four different wards, come to more than the last 15 minutes of the meeting. My policy was that if he only had 15 minutes on a day because he was busy, I would fit the first 15 minutes on the things we needed his approval for.)

I also made sure to have the agreed upon ending times adhered to. If we were having a meeting from 7-8:00, then I would start opening prayer at 7:00 and we would be saying the closing prayer at 8:00. If we didn&#039;t get through everything because the person responsible wasn&#039;t there and hadn&#039;t sent a report, it either got put off until the next meeting or that person was responsible for tracking everyone down later. 

All of that said, I wouldn&#039;t ever want someone to feel that if they are running late that they shouldn&#039;t come, whether it is to a leadership meeting, church or an activity. I don&#039;t believe that &quot;angels leave&quot; because the baby really was sick and your clothes and the child&#039;s needed to be changed. There are times that something comes up and I would much rather someone came an hour late to church, mutual, a RS meeting, etc., rather than stay home because they are afraid that they will be part of: &lt;blockquote&gt;
The congregation begin to file in, disturbing the speaker so much that the Spirit of God does not return to him to help him speak.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t believe that the Spirit flees when noise is made, either from one of God&#039;s children being late, a baby crying in the meeting, or anything else that may happen in the normal course of life. I also think that there are not enough angels to go around, and if angels, (instead of the Holy Ghost) are what is bringing the power of God to a meeting, then having more people show up would most likely bring more of them in. I believe that the Holy Ghost, and the spirit of revelation and testimony accompany each of us, wherever we go, as long as we are living worthy of His presence. 

I guess what makes me most uncomfortable is the assertion, with the specific examples given, is that there is no charity or tolerance/acceptance for those who are struggling in some part of their lives. If someone is already struggling with loneliness, feelings of unworthiness, depression, or physical difficulties, it would seem that this lesson would make them even less likely to feel loved and accepted, and more likely to completely stay away from meetings where they can feel the strength and peace that comes from the sharing of testimonies and friendship of Saints who are not struggling as much. It all seems so judgmental to me. 

Even though MST (Mormon Standard Time) it is one of my pet peeves, I wouldn&#039;t be able to teach this lesson as it is written.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lesson to rant against, and a Thoroughly Modern Millie quote?  My cup runeth over. <img src='http://www.keepapitchinin.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  My mom loves the movie, and although it is firmly fixed in my mind as part of having mono (my mom had gotten a VHS of the movie about two weeks before I got it) I still enjoy &#8220;Shoo Show&#8221;ing my kids when I don&#8217;t want them to argue about something that just has to be done now, without time for arguing. </p>
<p>Which brings me to punctuality. I think that this lesson actually does a disservice in how it presents the problem. Certainly being on time and prepared are important and I try to always be early, since things do come up. I have had great luck in many callings by letting people know that I will start on time without them, and that only people who are on time will get the cookies or dessert I bring, since I will be putting them away as soon as it is time to start. </p>
<p>(I have only had to strictly implement that part when I have had scout committee callings, and that was actually only aimed at having the bishopric member, in four different wards, come to more than the last 15 minutes of the meeting. My policy was that if he only had 15 minutes on a day because he was busy, I would fit the first 15 minutes on the things we needed his approval for.)</p>
<p>I also made sure to have the agreed upon ending times adhered to. If we were having a meeting from 7-8:00, then I would start opening prayer at 7:00 and we would be saying the closing prayer at 8:00. If we didn&#8217;t get through everything because the person responsible wasn&#8217;t there and hadn&#8217;t sent a report, it either got put off until the next meeting or that person was responsible for tracking everyone down later. </p>
<p>All of that said, I wouldn&#8217;t ever want someone to feel that if they are running late that they shouldn&#8217;t come, whether it is to a leadership meeting, church or an activity. I don&#8217;t believe that &#8220;angels leave&#8221; because the baby really was sick and your clothes and the child&#8217;s needed to be changed. There are times that something comes up and I would much rather someone came an hour late to church, mutual, a RS meeting, etc., rather than stay home because they are afraid that they will be part of:<br />
<blockquote>
The congregation begin to file in, disturbing the speaker so much that the Spirit of God does not return to him to help him speak.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that the Spirit flees when noise is made, either from one of God&#8217;s children being late, a baby crying in the meeting, or anything else that may happen in the normal course of life. I also think that there are not enough angels to go around, and if angels, (instead of the Holy Ghost) are what is bringing the power of God to a meeting, then having more people show up would most likely bring more of them in. I believe that the Holy Ghost, and the spirit of revelation and testimony accompany each of us, wherever we go, as long as we are living worthy of His presence. </p>
<p>I guess what makes me most uncomfortable is the assertion, with the specific examples given, is that there is no charity or tolerance/acceptance for those who are struggling in some part of their lives. If someone is already struggling with loneliness, feelings of unworthiness, depression, or physical difficulties, it would seem that this lesson would make them even less likely to feel loved and accepted, and more likely to completely stay away from meetings where they can feel the strength and peace that comes from the sharing of testimonies and friendship of Saints who are not struggling as much. It all seems so judgmental to me. </p>
<p>Even though MST (Mormon Standard Time) it is one of my pet peeves, I wouldn&#8217;t be able to teach this lesson as it is written.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/comment-page-1/#comment-324178</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17554#comment-324178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hard to know what might have been--how many angels you might have seen--if you&#039;d only managed to get to church on time.

But another good authority would often cite the example of Abraham and Isaac on the mountain.  What if the angel had been late?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hard to know what might have been&#8211;how many angels you might have seen&#8211;if you&#8217;d only managed to get to church on time.</p>
<p>But another good authority would often cite the example of Abraham and Isaac on the mountain.  What if the angel had been late?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Amy T</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/comment-page-1/#comment-324157</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17554#comment-324157</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;You, dear girls, little know the numbers of Celestial beings that have fled from places of worship; you little know the glorious truths and manifestations they had come to give, but you were too late to receive them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But the author evidently does know the numbers and the messages. Oh my.

Anyway, back to the topic. Punctuality. The pride of princes. (To quote &lt;em&gt;Thoroughly Modern Millie&lt;/em&gt;.)

I do agree that punctuality is one of the necessary virtues in a polite society. Regular tardiness is (so I&#039;ve been told by a good authority) a form of passive aggression, a way of protesting the lack of control one has over one&#039;s schedule.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You, dear girls, little know the numbers of Celestial beings that have fled from places of worship; you little know the glorious truths and manifestations they had come to give, but you were too late to receive them.</p></blockquote>
<p>But the author evidently does know the numbers and the messages. Oh my.</p>
<p>Anyway, back to the topic. Punctuality. The pride of princes. (To quote <em>Thoroughly Modern Millie</em>.)</p>
<p>I do agree that punctuality is one of the necessary virtues in a polite society. Regular tardiness is (so I&#8217;ve been told by a good authority) a form of passive aggression, a way of protesting the lack of control one has over one&#8217;s schedule.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HokieKate</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/12/10/ethics-for-young-girls-lesson-14-punctuality/comment-page-1/#comment-324093</link>
		<dc:creator>HokieKate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 14:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17554#comment-324093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This article is fantastic. Our ward activities have severe problems with punctuality, both beginning and ending on time. It frustrates me when people just laugh off their inconsiderateness as &quot;Mormon standard time&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is fantastic. Our ward activities have severe problems with punctuality, both beginning and ending on time. It frustrates me when people just laugh off their inconsiderateness as &#8220;Mormon standard time&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
