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	<title>Comments on: Not Bread Alone: Chapter 5</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/10/10/not-bread-alone-chapter-5/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/10/10/not-bread-alone-chapter-5/comment-page-1/#comment-275893</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17400#comment-275893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that these stories are important, both for the look they give us into the past, and also to celebrate the opportunity for these women to not live &quot;by bread alone&quot; in their artistic pursuits.  I had to just think of how many women working on ranches must have loved to draw or paint, and eventually we got a Minerva Teichert.

While on that point, I wondered if Elsie Carroll might have been related to one of my English professors at Weber State, Dr. LaVon Carroll.  She was primarily a teacher of modern British literature, with D. H. Lawrence being her favorite author, but she also wrote poetry and fiction.  She was a great teacher, and helped me with understanding more about how to write.  It would be interesting to know if there was a family link.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that these stories are important, both for the look they give us into the past, and also to celebrate the opportunity for these women to not live &#8220;by bread alone&#8221; in their artistic pursuits.  I had to just think of how many women working on ranches must have loved to draw or paint, and eventually we got a Minerva Teichert.</p>
<p>While on that point, I wondered if Elsie Carroll might have been related to one of my English professors at Weber State, Dr. LaVon Carroll.  She was primarily a teacher of modern British literature, with D. H. Lawrence being her favorite author, but she also wrote poetry and fiction.  She was a great teacher, and helped me with understanding more about how to write.  It would be interesting to know if there was a family link.</p>
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		<title>By: Mina</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/10/10/not-bread-alone-chapter-5/comment-page-1/#comment-275880</link>
		<dc:creator>Mina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17400#comment-275880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[kevinf: I really did not take exception to your snark at all. Your joke was entirely appropriate and I&#039;m sorry it could have looked like my comment about the story&#039;s clumsy plotting was a tut-tut in your direction. That said, I too, made the connection between this fictional plot and story of Moon Lake; they seem perfect compliments.

I agree with Ardis that the technically inexperienced character of many of these stories is what provides a great deal of their charm. These stories are neither the polished work of gifted literary writers nor mass produced genre fiction, they are an entirely different kind of offering---an offering of love, at the risk of sounding mawkish. 

And issues of relative &quot;literary merit&quot; are often beside the point. At least, that&#039;s the position I work from as a teacher. I&#039;m more interested in exploring how various narratives, from all levels of culture, work for their readers: what understandings of the world they allow for, what understandings they omit or discourage. For example, this story is grounded in some assumptions about &quot;human need&quot; that have historically been, as Ardis said, a part of Mormon culture (as well as overlapping with larger elements of American culture and American frontier culture as well). While I might argue that these assumptions are truly central to the core of Mormon belief (well, I would argue that!), I don&#039;t know that they have always figured in dominant ways, or even at times been all that visible. The &quot;feel&quot; of the Mormonism I grew up in was distinctly anti-aesthetic, yet even as a child I could see vestiges (usually architectural ones) of a Mormonism where &quot;art&quot; seemed to have mattered a great deal.

Ack! I have to go teach a class now and can&#039;t work my ideas out more clearly. A lot of thoughts about Mormonism and literature (and religious literature in general) have been clanging around my brain lately; hopefully at some point they will become magically distilled into a lucid bit of writing...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kevinf: I really did not take exception to your snark at all. Your joke was entirely appropriate and I&#8217;m sorry it could have looked like my comment about the story&#8217;s clumsy plotting was a tut-tut in your direction. That said, I too, made the connection between this fictional plot and story of Moon Lake; they seem perfect compliments.</p>
<p>I agree with Ardis that the technically inexperienced character of many of these stories is what provides a great deal of their charm. These stories are neither the polished work of gifted literary writers nor mass produced genre fiction, they are an entirely different kind of offering&#8212;an offering of love, at the risk of sounding mawkish. </p>
<p>And issues of relative &#8220;literary merit&#8221; are often beside the point. At least, that&#8217;s the position I work from as a teacher. I&#8217;m more interested in exploring how various narratives, from all levels of culture, work for their readers: what understandings of the world they allow for, what understandings they omit or discourage. For example, this story is grounded in some assumptions about &#8220;human need&#8221; that have historically been, as Ardis said, a part of Mormon culture (as well as overlapping with larger elements of American culture and American frontier culture as well). While I might argue that these assumptions are truly central to the core of Mormon belief (well, I would argue that!), I don&#8217;t know that they have always figured in dominant ways, or even at times been all that visible. The &#8220;feel&#8221; of the Mormonism I grew up in was distinctly anti-aesthetic, yet even as a child I could see vestiges (usually architectural ones) of a Mormonism where &#8220;art&#8221; seemed to have mattered a great deal.</p>
<p>Ack! I have to go teach a class now and can&#8217;t work my ideas out more clearly. A lot of thoughts about Mormonism and literature (and religious literature in general) have been clanging around my brain lately; hopefully at some point they will become magically distilled into a lucid bit of writing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/10/10/not-bread-alone-chapter-5/comment-page-1/#comment-275861</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17400#comment-275861</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These few comments epitomize for me our whole experience in the shared reading of these old stories. 

We have kevinf commenting on the technical clumsiness -- the women  (most of our authors have been women, although we&#039;ve seen at least two male authors) have, for the most part, been untrained, &quot;natural&quot; writers, doing the best they can, with often uneven results.  I love that quality! I can imagine many of these women squeezing time for their writing between household chores, doing it because they loved it, doing it despite their lack of training. The &lt;em&gt;Relief Society Magazine&lt;/em&gt; and other Church periodicals gave them opportunities that wouldn&#039;t have been available to many of them outside of Church channels.

Julia has responded to the content of the story itself -- in this case she &quot;likens the [story] unto [our]selves.&quot; I love that, too! I imagine that is exactly what the LDS readers of the 1930s and &#039;40s and &#039;50s  (the era of most of the posted stories) did. I suspect that&#039;s what the &lt;em&gt;Magazine&lt;/em&gt; editors and authors intended in many cases, especially when so many of the stories have a sometimes obvious didactic purpose (stay home and make a home for your husband and children! Get along with your mother-in-law! Do your visiting teaching!) She&#039;s recreating LDS history.

Mina identifies the meta-lesson of this story, which is probably the whole inspiration for Elsie C. Carroll&#039;s writing this story in the first place. I especially love that. Mina takes us beyond the events of this particular story to think about principles that are not unique to Mormonism, but are at the same time very, very Mormon.

Thanks for taking the time to spell out your different perspectives. This is what a book club ought to be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These few comments epitomize for me our whole experience in the shared reading of these old stories. </p>
<p>We have kevinf commenting on the technical clumsiness &#8212; the women  (most of our authors have been women, although we&#8217;ve seen at least two male authors) have, for the most part, been untrained, &#8220;natural&#8221; writers, doing the best they can, with often uneven results.  I love that quality! I can imagine many of these women squeezing time for their writing between household chores, doing it because they loved it, doing it despite their lack of training. The <em>Relief Society Magazine</em> and other Church periodicals gave them opportunities that wouldn&#8217;t have been available to many of them outside of Church channels.</p>
<p>Julia has responded to the content of the story itself &#8212; in this case she &#8220;likens the [story] unto [our]selves.&#8221; I love that, too! I imagine that is exactly what the LDS readers of the 1930s and &#8217;40s and &#8217;50s  (the era of most of the posted stories) did. I suspect that&#8217;s what the <em>Magazine</em> editors and authors intended in many cases, especially when so many of the stories have a sometimes obvious didactic purpose (stay home and make a home for your husband and children! Get along with your mother-in-law! Do your visiting teaching!) She&#8217;s recreating LDS history.</p>
<p>Mina identifies the meta-lesson of this story, which is probably the whole inspiration for Elsie C. Carroll&#8217;s writing this story in the first place. I especially love that. Mina takes us beyond the events of this particular story to think about principles that are not unique to Mormonism, but are at the same time very, very Mormon.</p>
<p>Thanks for taking the time to spell out your different perspectives. This is what a book club ought to be.</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/10/10/not-bread-alone-chapter-5/comment-page-1/#comment-275843</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 15:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17400#comment-275843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mina, my earlier snarky comment notwithstanding, you are right.  This story hasn&#039;t been quite as odd as I thought it would be after episode 3 or somewhere in there, and it has shown the importance of the arts and culture, and that even the folks in poor, blighted, Cedar Basin are recognizing that.  I was also struck by the parallels to the story about the Moon Lake folks during the depression yesterday (or the day before?.  I was initially surprised when Linda wouldn&#039;t sell the piano to pay the interest on the mortgage, but that obviously turned out to be the right decision.

Given the rural, poor situation of Cedar Basin in this story, when the oil idea came up, I had a picture of the Clampett family all loaded up in their truck and moving to Beverly Hills, and Ike&#039;s aw-shucks dialogue just led me right into that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mina, my earlier snarky comment notwithstanding, you are right.  This story hasn&#8217;t been quite as odd as I thought it would be after episode 3 or somewhere in there, and it has shown the importance of the arts and culture, and that even the folks in poor, blighted, Cedar Basin are recognizing that.  I was also struck by the parallels to the story about the Moon Lake folks during the depression yesterday (or the day before?.  I was initially surprised when Linda wouldn&#8217;t sell the piano to pay the interest on the mortgage, but that obviously turned out to be the right decision.</p>
<p>Given the rural, poor situation of Cedar Basin in this story, when the oil idea came up, I had a picture of the Clampett family all loaded up in their truck and moving to Beverly Hills, and Ike&#8217;s aw-shucks dialogue just led me right into that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mina</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/10/10/not-bread-alone-chapter-5/comment-page-1/#comment-275779</link>
		<dc:creator>Mina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 13:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17400#comment-275779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leaving aside any hokey plot developments and general sentimentality, I really love this story for its (quite clear and even overly obvious) message: music, art, culture, these things are a necessary social good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leaving aside any hokey plot developments and general sentimentality, I really love this story for its (quite clear and even overly obvious) message: music, art, culture, these things are a necessary social good.</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/10/10/not-bread-alone-chapter-5/comment-page-1/#comment-275546</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 03:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17400#comment-275546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I definitely agree that all young couples need their own homes!  Too bad Mel isn&#039;t married and then no one would have to worry about him. Sigh]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely agree that all young couples need their own homes!  Too bad Mel isn&#8217;t married and then no one would have to worry about him. Sigh</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/10/10/not-bread-alone-chapter-5/comment-page-1/#comment-275349</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 21:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17400#comment-275349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Oil,&quot; he said, blowing his nose.  &quot;Black Gold, Texas Tea.&quot;  Ike scratched his armpit, and declared, &quot;Cissy and I love that cee-ment pond you put in.  Where&#039;d you say you was moving to?&quot;

Sorry, I kind of lost control there for a moment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Oil,&#8221; he said, blowing his nose.  &#8220;Black Gold, Texas Tea.&#8221;  Ike scratched his armpit, and declared, &#8220;Cissy and I love that cee-ment pond you put in.  Where&#8217;d you say you was moving to?&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry, I kind of lost control there for a moment.</p>
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