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	<title>Comments on: In Our Ward: Lesson 34: How Could You Have Forgotten Your God?</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/16/in-our-ward-lesson-34-how-could-you-have-forgotten-your-god/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/16/in-our-ward-lesson-34-how-could-you-have-forgotten-your-god/comment-page-1/#comment-264753</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19172#comment-264753</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am always grateful to get my Sunday School lesson from you. I wanted to share a couple of thoughts, as if I was a class member. (Since I still am not cleared to go to church, and even when I get permission, it will be for an hour or less. My doctor says I should be happy if I am up to three hours by Christmas. So, I expect to be in your class for several more months.)

My husband was not a member when we married, and given his experience with organized religion, I was prepared to have it be that way for quite some time, if not for the rest of our lives. He had already made a huge number of changes in his life, and I was proud of him for deciding to make the changes he had. His commitment to have daily family prayer, and to join me and my children in church, at least once a month, was important to me as a sign of love and respect. 

When I compare where he was on the day we were married, compared to three years before, it still amazes me. The fact that he decided to join the church, three months after our marriage, was a blessing for all of us. It certainly was a high point in his decisions to change his life. I think sharing what his life looked like three years before is instructive in not judging people and deciding they would never be interested in, or able to live, the gospel. So, three years before joining the church, he:

*Smoked 1 1/2-2 packs of cigarettes each day
*Drank to get drunk every night, and would drink until he passed out each weekend - He was never caught driving drunk, but he drove while drunk more than once a week
*He spent more on cigarettes and alcohol than he did on his rent
*He had one night stands, usually with women he met the night he had sex with them, and he rarely knew their names
*He was gambling more than once a week, and had more than $50,000 in gambling debt
*He did not want children, and literally, had only spent time with his cousins&#039; children at family reunions
*He was so anxious about people he didn&#039;t know, that unless it was related to work, even dialing the phone would send him into a panic attack (his military experiences have left him with severe PTSD)
*He had not had a relationship last over 6 weeks, since he had graduated from high school

If you had met him at that time, would you have been able to see past those facts to the man underneath, and been able to see a happily married man, thrilled to have his stepchildren choose him to sit next to at church? Could you picture him passing the sacrament alongside his stepson, until that young man was comfortable and confident that he could do it without an adult&#039;s help? Could you see him patiently helping six unruly scouts who all have IEP&#039;s at school, for hyperactivity? Would you put that former man as someone who would be a mentor to youth in the ward who are making bad choices?

When my husband sent out wedding announcements (the last week of March) almost everyone in his family, as well as his friends, thought it was an April Fools Joke. The group he used to drink with started a pool to guess how long our marriage would last, and no one put money on over 12 months. They sent us the money for our first anniversary. 

Two of his friends have been so amazed at the changes in him (he had stopped smoking about 18 months before we met) that he has had an opportunity to share his testimony with them, in our home. The increased presence of the Holy Ghost, and our combined commitment to prayer and scripture study, makes are home a peaceful place to be. I have tried, and haven&#039;t been able to find that level of peace and spirituality, when I have been alone or with a partner who was less committed to living the gospel. I guess you could say that &quot;my Lamanite&quot; has brought &quot;great power and authority&quot; into our home. 

My second is a response to your question about prosperity. Recently we have been discussing whether to buy a new (to us) vehicle to replace our 15 year old van. After discussing car payments, repair costs, insurance and our current needs, we decided not to replace a vehicle that runs well, just because it would be nice to have a newer vehicle. At the point where the van needs a major repair, or dies, then we will reconsider it. We have the money in our budget that could be used for the car payments, but for now we will increase out fast offering and put more money into savings instead. 

I don&#039;t think that there is a problem with prayerfully considering a similar purchase, and deciding to do it. I think that where it is easy to get caught up in spending more money, is when we forget to be prayerful and wait for a confirming answer. My mom always told us that if we felt giddy when we buy something, that we are having an &quot;acquisition high&quot; and not the quiet peace that comes from making a well reasoned purchase. For our family, we have chosen to discuss any purchase over $100, before we buy things. Depending on the budget, other families might choose a higher or lower amount. I think the most important thing is to have a budget, and a preset limit on purchases made without a spouse&#039;s input.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am always grateful to get my Sunday School lesson from you. I wanted to share a couple of thoughts, as if I was a class member. (Since I still am not cleared to go to church, and even when I get permission, it will be for an hour or less. My doctor says I should be happy if I am up to three hours by Christmas. So, I expect to be in your class for several more months.)</p>
<p>My husband was not a member when we married, and given his experience with organized religion, I was prepared to have it be that way for quite some time, if not for the rest of our lives. He had already made a huge number of changes in his life, and I was proud of him for deciding to make the changes he had. His commitment to have daily family prayer, and to join me and my children in church, at least once a month, was important to me as a sign of love and respect. </p>
<p>When I compare where he was on the day we were married, compared to three years before, it still amazes me. The fact that he decided to join the church, three months after our marriage, was a blessing for all of us. It certainly was a high point in his decisions to change his life. I think sharing what his life looked like three years before is instructive in not judging people and deciding they would never be interested in, or able to live, the gospel. So, three years before joining the church, he:</p>
<p>*Smoked 1 1/2-2 packs of cigarettes each day<br />
*Drank to get drunk every night, and would drink until he passed out each weekend &#8211; He was never caught driving drunk, but he drove while drunk more than once a week<br />
*He spent more on cigarettes and alcohol than he did on his rent<br />
*He had one night stands, usually with women he met the night he had sex with them, and he rarely knew their names<br />
*He was gambling more than once a week, and had more than $50,000 in gambling debt<br />
*He did not want children, and literally, had only spent time with his cousins&#8217; children at family reunions<br />
*He was so anxious about people he didn&#8217;t know, that unless it was related to work, even dialing the phone would send him into a panic attack (his military experiences have left him with severe PTSD)<br />
*He had not had a relationship last over 6 weeks, since he had graduated from high school</p>
<p>If you had met him at that time, would you have been able to see past those facts to the man underneath, and been able to see a happily married man, thrilled to have his stepchildren choose him to sit next to at church? Could you picture him passing the sacrament alongside his stepson, until that young man was comfortable and confident that he could do it without an adult&#8217;s help? Could you see him patiently helping six unruly scouts who all have IEP&#8217;s at school, for hyperactivity? Would you put that former man as someone who would be a mentor to youth in the ward who are making bad choices?</p>
<p>When my husband sent out wedding announcements (the last week of March) almost everyone in his family, as well as his friends, thought it was an April Fools Joke. The group he used to drink with started a pool to guess how long our marriage would last, and no one put money on over 12 months. They sent us the money for our first anniversary. </p>
<p>Two of his friends have been so amazed at the changes in him (he had stopped smoking about 18 months before we met) that he has had an opportunity to share his testimony with them, in our home. The increased presence of the Holy Ghost, and our combined commitment to prayer and scripture study, makes are home a peaceful place to be. I have tried, and haven&#8217;t been able to find that level of peace and spirituality, when I have been alone or with a partner who was less committed to living the gospel. I guess you could say that &#8220;my Lamanite&#8221; has brought &#8220;great power and authority&#8221; into our home. </p>
<p>My second is a response to your question about prosperity. Recently we have been discussing whether to buy a new (to us) vehicle to replace our 15 year old van. After discussing car payments, repair costs, insurance and our current needs, we decided not to replace a vehicle that runs well, just because it would be nice to have a newer vehicle. At the point where the van needs a major repair, or dies, then we will reconsider it. We have the money in our budget that could be used for the car payments, but for now we will increase out fast offering and put more money into savings instead. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that there is a problem with prayerfully considering a similar purchase, and deciding to do it. I think that where it is easy to get caught up in spending more money, is when we forget to be prayerful and wait for a confirming answer. My mom always told us that if we felt giddy when we buy something, that we are having an &#8220;acquisition high&#8221; and not the quiet peace that comes from making a well reasoned purchase. For our family, we have chosen to discuss any purchase over $100, before we buy things. Depending on the budget, other families might choose a higher or lower amount. I think the most important thing is to have a budget, and a preset limit on purchases made without a spouse&#8217;s input.</p>
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		<title>By: charlene</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/16/in-our-ward-lesson-34-how-could-you-have-forgotten-your-god/comment-page-1/#comment-264751</link>
		<dc:creator>charlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19172#comment-264751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Our teacher did some nice examples of shortcuts across the &quot;pride cycle&quot; or getting stuck back and forth at one link. One excellent question was, &quot;what do you do when you see pride and corruption leading not to downfall, but to success?&quot;

Thanks for sharing your class with us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our teacher did some nice examples of shortcuts across the &#8220;pride cycle&#8221; or getting stuck back and forth at one link. One excellent question was, &#8220;what do you do when you see pride and corruption leading not to downfall, but to success?&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your class with us.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/16/in-our-ward-lesson-34-how-could-you-have-forgotten-your-god/comment-page-1/#comment-264717</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19172#comment-264717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like to ask personal questions -- if they&#039;re truly personal (down to the individual level), I make it clear that I&#039;m not looking for verbal responses.  But as a class member I get so tired of discussions of &quot;those people&quot; (whoever they are -- anybody but *us*) and &quot;their&quot; problems, so I try to have discussion focus on us as church members or us as members of a Western society.  Discussion gets really interesting, sometimes a wee bit defensive when one or two people think that the mere fact of asking a question means I&#039;m accusing church members of something.

Yesterday&#039;s discussion was a little frustrating, though, because no matter what question I asked, or how I asked it, the first responses were always the canned responses to questions people are so used to from past canned lessons on &quot;the pride cycle.&quot; The responses in some cases weren&#039;t even remotely connected to the questions I asked. People who had looked at the lesson or at least the assigned scriptures recognized it as the &quot;pride cycle&quot; lesson and so dutifully offered &quot;pride cycle&quot; answers. I have to figure out a way (blowing air horns? dancing a hornpipe?) to get classmembers&#039; attention and have them listen to the question before responding. 

(Classmembers most apt to see this know, I hope, that their responses, especially toward the end of the lesson, were much appreciated and &lt;em&gt;did&lt;/em&gt; show they were thinking about the actual questions asked.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like to ask personal questions &#8212; if they&#8217;re truly personal (down to the individual level), I make it clear that I&#8217;m not looking for verbal responses.  But as a class member I get so tired of discussions of &#8220;those people&#8221; (whoever they are &#8212; anybody but *us*) and &#8220;their&#8221; problems, so I try to have discussion focus on us as church members or us as members of a Western society.  Discussion gets really interesting, sometimes a wee bit defensive when one or two people think that the mere fact of asking a question means I&#8217;m accusing church members of something.</p>
<p>Yesterday&#8217;s discussion was a little frustrating, though, because no matter what question I asked, or how I asked it, the first responses were always the canned responses to questions people are so used to from past canned lessons on &#8220;the pride cycle.&#8221; The responses in some cases weren&#8217;t even remotely connected to the questions I asked. People who had looked at the lesson or at least the assigned scriptures recognized it as the &#8220;pride cycle&#8221; lesson and so dutifully offered &#8220;pride cycle&#8221; answers. I have to figure out a way (blowing air horns? dancing a hornpipe?) to get classmembers&#8217; attention and have them listen to the question before responding. </p>
<p>(Classmembers most apt to see this know, I hope, that their responses, especially toward the end of the lesson, were much appreciated and <em>did</em> show they were thinking about the actual questions asked.)</p>
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		<title>By: charlene</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/16/in-our-ward-lesson-34-how-could-you-have-forgotten-your-god/comment-page-1/#comment-264709</link>
		<dc:creator>charlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19172#comment-264709</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice lesson. It&#039;s fun to compare in your ward with in our ward.

You asked some very personal questions. How was the discussion in your class?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice lesson. It&#8217;s fun to compare in your ward with in our ward.</p>
<p>You asked some very personal questions. How was the discussion in your class?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Amy T</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/16/in-our-ward-lesson-34-how-could-you-have-forgotten-your-god/comment-page-1/#comment-264481</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 23:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19172#comment-264481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, hooray. You taught today. I missed Sunday School.

(Okay, so this time it was my own fault. Among other things, I was in the family history center describing the upcoming Eminent Woman&#039;s life story to my visiting teaching companion, complete with tales of convicts, graveyards, death threats, two merry widows, and one wife who didn&#039;t wait around to become a widow. Who knew the history of St. George was so fascinating??)

Nice lesson, Ardis. &quot;How do we know when our economic choices are acceptable to the Lord, or when they cross the line into vanity?&quot; I&#039;ll think about that question for awhile.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, hooray. You taught today. I missed Sunday School.</p>
<p>(Okay, so this time it was my own fault. Among other things, I was in the family history center describing the upcoming Eminent Woman&#8217;s life story to my visiting teaching companion, complete with tales of convicts, graveyards, death threats, two merry widows, and one wife who didn&#8217;t wait around to become a widow. Who knew the history of St. George was so fascinating??)</p>
<p>Nice lesson, Ardis. &#8220;How do we know when our economic choices are acceptable to the Lord, or when they cross the line into vanity?&#8221; I&#8217;ll think about that question for awhile.</p>
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