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	<title>Comments on: Sacrament Handedness: A Poll</title>
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	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: andrew h</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-2/#comment-263134</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew h</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Good points Ardis.  &quot;Utter nonsense&quot; was way too strong.  I take it back.  I suppose its a bit hypocritical for me to dogmaticly complain about how Joseph Fielding Smith could be dogmatic]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points Ardis.  &#8220;Utter nonsense&#8221; was way too strong.  I take it back.  I suppose its a bit hypocritical for me to dogmaticly complain about how Joseph Fielding Smith could be dogmatic</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-2/#comment-263103</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19029#comment-263103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One exception to your thorough discussion, andrew h (thanks for making the quotations so easily available):

While I find the insistence on use of the right hand to be non-doctrinal, I don&#039;t want to call it &quot;utter nonsense.&quot; I believe there can be value to order and tradition -- the organization and routine taught to deacons passing the sacrament ensures its passing to everyone in the chapel (and foyer, perhaps) without fuss and distraction, which allows members of the congregation an undistacted few minutes of reflection; without that order, confusion and fuss and distracting hand signals or voices would interrupt reflection. I think minimal standards of dress for deacons adds to that, and I don&#039;t see any harm at all in helping deacons think about the effect their dress has on a congregation by discussing the symbolism of white clothing.  The problem only comes when attention to dress changes from dignity to rigid uniform, or when violation of traditional patterns leads to people condemning &quot;rule breakers&quot; for sinfulness or sacrilege.

Likewise, if an individual considering his own behavior, or parents teaching their children, find value in associating the right hand with covenant making, thereby causing them to better understand what they&#039;re doing when they take the sacrament, I think that&#039;s fine. I think, though, that we should recognize that that&#039;s a layer of tradition and culture *added on* to the ordinance, and that suppression of -- even awareness of -- others&#039; &quot;violation&quot; of those traditions causes more harm than following the tradition causes good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One exception to your thorough discussion, andrew h (thanks for making the quotations so easily available):</p>
<p>While I find the insistence on use of the right hand to be non-doctrinal, I don&#8217;t want to call it &#8220;utter nonsense.&#8221; I believe there can be value to order and tradition &#8212; the organization and routine taught to deacons passing the sacrament ensures its passing to everyone in the chapel (and foyer, perhaps) without fuss and distraction, which allows members of the congregation an undistacted few minutes of reflection; without that order, confusion and fuss and distracting hand signals or voices would interrupt reflection. I think minimal standards of dress for deacons adds to that, and I don&#8217;t see any harm at all in helping deacons think about the effect their dress has on a congregation by discussing the symbolism of white clothing.  The problem only comes when attention to dress changes from dignity to rigid uniform, or when violation of traditional patterns leads to people condemning &#8220;rule breakers&#8221; for sinfulness or sacrilege.</p>
<p>Likewise, if an individual considering his own behavior, or parents teaching their children, find value in associating the right hand with covenant making, thereby causing them to better understand what they&#8217;re doing when they take the sacrament, I think that&#8217;s fine. I think, though, that we should recognize that that&#8217;s a layer of tradition and culture *added on* to the ordinance, and that suppression of &#8212; even awareness of &#8212; others&#8217; &#8220;violation&#8221; of those traditions causes more harm than following the tradition causes good.</p>
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		<title>By: andrew h</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-263095</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew h</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19029#comment-263095</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis,

I realize I am joining the conversation rather late.  I was taught this by my parents and my Jr. Sunday School teachers in the 70&#039;s.  I remember being taught this in the 80&#039;s as well in Provo Utah.  

BUT it was also taught to me as an adult in the 90&#039;s  In the Mid 90&#039;s I was taking classes at UVSC in Orem, Utah.  One of my Institute teachers, who was a big McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith fan, spent a lot of time on this.  He used this statement on an overhead (yeah, we were still using those back then) from &quot;Answers to Gospel Questions&quot; that was also in &quot;Doctrines of Salvation&quot; (all of Joseph Fielding Smith&#039;s books have such serious, life and death titles):

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;In one case we are informed that some brethren were advocating the partaking of the sacrament with either hand. … Therefore, it is expedient that something be said about the use of the right hand in performing ordinations and partaking of the sacrament.   
 
The performing of ordinances with the right hand in preference to the left is a well-established custom universally and is not confined to the Church. In various governments where oaths are administered, the candidate for office is asked to raise his right hand. There are occasions when he is sworn to give truthful testimony by placing his right hand on a copy of the Bible. This custom has come down from the beginning, and from many scriptural passages we gather that it has always received divine sanction. (He then quotes several passages of scripture)
 
The showing favor to the right hand or side is not something invented by man but was revealed from the heavens in the beginning. (He then quotes Isaiah and Psalms and Matthew)

A Symbol of Righteousness   
 
There are numerous passages in the scriptures referring to the right hand, indicating that it is a symbol of righteousness and was used in the making of covenants. (Quotes Matthew again)

(And this part always amused me the most, does he think “Lefties” are less righteous?) 

The right hand or side is called the dexter and the left the sinister. Dexter connotes something favorable; sinister, something unfavorable or unfortunate. It is a well-established practice in the Church to partake of the sacrament with the right hand and also to anoint with the right hand, according to the custom which the scriptures indicate is, and always was, approved by divine injunction.   –Answers to GQ V. 5 p. 158&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I AGREE with you 100% Ardis, this is all utter nonsense, but it is nonsense that many have taught.  I did a quick check and I found this passage quoted in Daniel H. Ludlow, &quot;A Companion to Your Study of the New Testament&quot;, Daniel H. Ludlow, &quot;A Companion to Your Study of the Old Testament&quot;, Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, &quot;Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon&quot;, Joseph Fielding McConkie and Donald W. Parry, &quot;A Guide to Scriptural Symbols&quot;, and Bruce A. Van Orden and Brent L. Top, eds., &quot;The Lord of the Gospels: The 1990 Sperry Symposium on the New Testament&quot;.

I did a quick check on Deseretbook.com and they still sell quite a few of these volumes so I am sure that there are a lot of &quot;old timers&quot; and JFS/McConkie dogma type fans out there that still push this line of thinking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis,</p>
<p>I realize I am joining the conversation rather late.  I was taught this by my parents and my Jr. Sunday School teachers in the 70&#8242;s.  I remember being taught this in the 80&#8242;s as well in Provo Utah.  </p>
<p>BUT it was also taught to me as an adult in the 90&#8242;s  In the Mid 90&#8242;s I was taking classes at UVSC in Orem, Utah.  One of my Institute teachers, who was a big McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith fan, spent a lot of time on this.  He used this statement on an overhead (yeah, we were still using those back then) from &#8220;Answers to Gospel Questions&#8221; that was also in &#8220;Doctrines of Salvation&#8221; (all of Joseph Fielding Smith&#8217;s books have such serious, life and death titles):</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;In one case we are informed that some brethren were advocating the partaking of the sacrament with either hand. … Therefore, it is expedient that something be said about the use of the right hand in performing ordinations and partaking of the sacrament.   </p>
<p>The performing of ordinances with the right hand in preference to the left is a well-established custom universally and is not confined to the Church. In various governments where oaths are administered, the candidate for office is asked to raise his right hand. There are occasions when he is sworn to give truthful testimony by placing his right hand on a copy of the Bible. This custom has come down from the beginning, and from many scriptural passages we gather that it has always received divine sanction. (He then quotes several passages of scripture)</p>
<p>The showing favor to the right hand or side is not something invented by man but was revealed from the heavens in the beginning. (He then quotes Isaiah and Psalms and Matthew)</p>
<p>A Symbol of Righteousness   </p>
<p>There are numerous passages in the scriptures referring to the right hand, indicating that it is a symbol of righteousness and was used in the making of covenants. (Quotes Matthew again)</p>
<p>(And this part always amused me the most, does he think “Lefties” are less righteous?) </p>
<p>The right hand or side is called the dexter and the left the sinister. Dexter connotes something favorable; sinister, something unfavorable or unfortunate. It is a well-established practice in the Church to partake of the sacrament with the right hand and also to anoint with the right hand, according to the custom which the scriptures indicate is, and always was, approved by divine injunction.   –Answers to GQ V. 5 p. 158</p></blockquote>
<p>I AGREE with you 100% Ardis, this is all utter nonsense, but it is nonsense that many have taught.  I did a quick check and I found this passage quoted in Daniel H. Ludlow, &#8220;A Companion to Your Study of the New Testament&#8221;, Daniel H. Ludlow, &#8220;A Companion to Your Study of the Old Testament&#8221;, Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, &#8220;Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon&#8221;, Joseph Fielding McConkie and Donald W. Parry, &#8220;A Guide to Scriptural Symbols&#8221;, and Bruce A. Van Orden and Brent L. Top, eds., &#8220;The Lord of the Gospels: The 1990 Sperry Symposium on the New Testament&#8221;.</p>
<p>I did a quick check on Deseretbook.com and they still sell quite a few of these volumes so I am sure that there are a lot of &#8220;old timers&#8221; and JFS/McConkie dogma type fans out there that still push this line of thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-261887</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 13:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19029#comment-261887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Earlier references to &quot;JFS&quot; have  meant Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. This quotation from JFS, Sr. is another example in the pattern of this son being more dogmatic than the father. I like his finding value in a practice while at the same time distinguishing between practice and the essential.

Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Earlier references to &#8220;JFS&#8221; have  meant Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. This quotation from JFS, Sr. is another example in the pattern of this son being more dogmatic than the father. I like his finding value in a practice while at the same time distinguishing between practice and the essential.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben S</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-261840</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 11:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19029#comment-261840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unless there&#039;s a different JFS quote, or if that&#039;s JFielding instead of Joseph F, I&#039;ve always read him differently. He says we take it with the right hand, but then also calls it a practice, and critiques slavish adherence to such things.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Right Hand or Left?

Alvin F. wrote to ask if there were a rule about pouring the oil with the right hand when administering to the sick. Answering the question, Joseph F. took occasion to warn his son against excessive attention to details that tend to obscure the true meaning of the ordinances.
December 16, 1905

&gt;The question you ask about anointing seems very simple to me. I think it is the general practice to pour the oil with the right hand. I suppose because most people are right-handed. But there is no law or rule against anointing . . . with the left. We shake with the right hand. In the endowments the signs and tokens are made and given with the right hand. When we lay but one hand on the sick it should be the right. We take the Sacrament with the right hand. The practice makes the rule. But always remember that it is not the rule, or practice, which gives life or force, but the true spirit. There is no good in splitting hairs nor in tickey-technical rules. &quot;The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.&quot;&lt;

- Joseph F. Smith, &lt;em&gt;From Prophet to Son: Advice of Joseph F. Smith to His Missionary Sons&lt;/em&gt;, compiled by Hyrum M. Smith III and Scott G. Kenney [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1981], 93.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless there&#8217;s a different JFS quote, or if that&#8217;s JFielding instead of Joseph F, I&#8217;ve always read him differently. He says we take it with the right hand, but then also calls it a practice, and critiques slavish adherence to such things.</p>
<blockquote><p>Right Hand or Left?</p>
<p>Alvin F. wrote to ask if there were a rule about pouring the oil with the right hand when administering to the sick. Answering the question, Joseph F. took occasion to warn his son against excessive attention to details that tend to obscure the true meaning of the ordinances.<br />
December 16, 1905</p>
<p>&gt;The question you ask about anointing seems very simple to me. I think it is the general practice to pour the oil with the right hand. I suppose because most people are right-handed. But there is no law or rule against anointing . . . with the left. We shake with the right hand. In the endowments the signs and tokens are made and given with the right hand. When we lay but one hand on the sick it should be the right. We take the Sacrament with the right hand. The practice makes the rule. But always remember that it is not the rule, or practice, which gives life or force, but the true spirit. There is no good in splitting hairs nor in tickey-technical rules. &#8220;The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.&#8221;&lt;</p>
<p>- Joseph F. Smith, <em>From Prophet to Son: Advice of Joseph F. Smith to His Missionary Sons</em>, compiled by Hyrum M. Smith III and Scott G. Kenney [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1981], 93.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: John Taber</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-261575</link>
		<dc:creator>John Taber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 19:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19029#comment-261575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My mother who grew up in Salt Lake City (and I mean, in the city) in the 1950s/1960s was very strong about right hand only.  She never slapped our left hand or anything like that.

In Italy on my mission, sacrament trays were not passed, except in the military units.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My mother who grew up in Salt Lake City (and I mean, in the city) in the 1950s/1960s was very strong about right hand only.  She never slapped our left hand or anything like that.</p>
<p>In Italy on my mission, sacrament trays were not passed, except in the military units.</p>
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		<title>By: David Y.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-260610</link>
		<dc:creator>David Y.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19029#comment-260610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Idaho, 1970&#039;s and 80&#039;s.  I answered that &quot;I&#039;ve heard older ward members fuss about it, but I don&#039;t recall it being taught to me.&quot;  (I always assumed it had an older history related to the notion about the left hand being the &quot;sinister&quot; hand, not the right hand being the &quot;covenant&quot; hand.)

Anyhow, as a left-hander myself, and being somewhat contary in nature, I take the sacrament with my left hand at every possible opportunity!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Idaho, 1970&#8242;s and 80&#8242;s.  I answered that &#8220;I&#8217;ve heard older ward members fuss about it, but I don&#8217;t recall it being taught to me.&#8221;  (I always assumed it had an older history related to the notion about the left hand being the &#8220;sinister&#8221; hand, not the right hand being the &#8220;covenant&#8221; hand.)</p>
<p>Anyhow, as a left-hander myself, and being somewhat contary in nature, I take the sacrament with my left hand at every possible opportunity!</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-260607</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19029#comment-260607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s odd, though, that he doesn&#039;t actually answer the question, isn&#039;t it, A. Nonny?  It&#039;s a &quot;yes&quot; or &quot;no&quot; question, but he never says yes or no. I think this &quot;answer&quot; was published at a time when the practice was in flux -- the Church was no longer insisting on the right hand, but Bro. Nelson (not yet then an apostle) didn&#039;t want to contradict the entrenched tradition, but instead gave some reasoning that could support the tradition without actually endorsing it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s odd, though, that he doesn&#8217;t actually answer the question, isn&#8217;t it, A. Nonny?  It&#8217;s a &#8220;yes&#8221; or &#8220;no&#8221; question, but he never says yes or no. I think this &#8220;answer&#8221; was published at a time when the practice was in flux &#8212; the Church was no longer insisting on the right hand, but Bro. Nelson (not yet then an apostle) didn&#8217;t want to contradict the entrenched tradition, but instead gave some reasoning that could support the tradition without actually endorsing it.</p>
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		<title>By: A. Nonny Mouse</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-260602</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Nonny Mouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19029#comment-260602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The last time I can remember anybody actually mentioning this at a church-wide level is Russell M. Nelson in the Ensign in 1983.

http://www.lds.org/liahona/1983/07/questions-and-answers

Several people in my &quot;mission field&quot; ward growing up taught the &quot;right hand as covenant hand&quot; explanation that Russell M. Nelson gives there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last time I can remember anybody actually mentioning this at a church-wide level is Russell M. Nelson in the Ensign in 1983.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lds.org/liahona/1983/07/questions-and-answers" rel="nofollow">http://www.lds.org/liahona/1983/07/questions-and-answers</a></p>
<p>Several people in my &#8220;mission field&#8221; ward growing up taught the &#8220;right hand as covenant hand&#8221; explanation that Russell M. Nelson gives there.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/09/02/sacrament-handedness-a-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-260537</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=19029#comment-260537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a latecomer to this discussion, let me just add an observation that the Community of Christ (former RLDS) take seriously the idea that the sacrament is passed by the priesthood.  There&#039;s no passing down the rows; the rows are wide enough that a priesthood holder can walk along it to present the sacrament.  

(I don&#039;t have current evidence on this, so I may be passing on information that is out of date. So much has changed among our semi-co-religionists.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a latecomer to this discussion, let me just add an observation that the Community of Christ (former RLDS) take seriously the idea that the sacrament is passed by the priesthood.  There&#8217;s no passing down the rows; the rows are wide enough that a priesthood holder can walk along it to present the sacrament.  </p>
<p>(I don&#8217;t have current evidence on this, so I may be passing on information that is out of date. So much has changed among our semi-co-religionists.)</p>
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