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	<title>Comments on: Guest Post: A Brief Guide to Mitt Romney’s Polygamous Heritage</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-244825</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-244825</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A Wikipedia article about the Iron Cross says that Prussian military archives were destroyed in World War II, so it&#039;s unlikely that any proof of Wilcken&#039;s receipt of the award exists, unless it was kept in the family.  But that makes it impossible to know how many of the medals were awarded.  So many were given during World War I (over 5,000,000 Iron Cross 2nd Class and 218,000 Iron Cross 1st Class) that it lost the status it had earlier enjoyed.  No telling whether that kind of &quot;medal inflation&quot; was a problem in the Prussian Army sixty years earlier.

One cautionary tale (and I&#039;d suspect there are many others, although perhaps not in such numbers) about military medals arose in the U.S. Civil War.  The Medal of Honor, which now is reserved for the most extraordinary acts of heroism, was promised by the Secretary of War to an entire regiment (the 27th Maine) if they stayed a few days past the end of their enlistments to defend Washington from Jubal Early&#039;s raid (in 1864).  In a bit of housekeeping a generation later, the army purged 874 members of that regiment from the roster of Medal of Honor winners.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Wikipedia article about the Iron Cross says that Prussian military archives were destroyed in World War II, so it&#8217;s unlikely that any proof of Wilcken&#8217;s receipt of the award exists, unless it was kept in the family.  But that makes it impossible to know how many of the medals were awarded.  So many were given during World War I (over 5,000,000 Iron Cross 2nd Class and 218,000 Iron Cross 1st Class) that it lost the status it had earlier enjoyed.  No telling whether that kind of &#8220;medal inflation&#8221; was a problem in the Prussian Army sixty years earlier.</p>
<p>One cautionary tale (and I&#8217;d suspect there are many others, although perhaps not in such numbers) about military medals arose in the U.S. Civil War.  The Medal of Honor, which now is reserved for the most extraordinary acts of heroism, was promised by the Secretary of War to an entire regiment (the 27th Maine) if they stayed a few days past the end of their enlistments to defend Washington from Jubal Early&#8217;s raid (in 1864).  In a bit of housekeeping a generation later, the army purged 874 members of that regiment from the roster of Medal of Honor winners.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy T</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-244811</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-244811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your comment, Karen! A few notes.

First, if you follow the link in Wilcken&#039;s section, it leads to a very interesting post from Ardis  about Wilcken&#039;s experience. Ardis is the historian who hosts this blog and undoubtedly knows as much about the history of Johnston&#039;s Army as any living person. (If not more.) You may enjoy reading her post and the comments.

About Wilcken&#039;s history, I&#039;ve never seen any proof that the family history has been adequately researched. I&#039;ve rarely seen Wilcken&#039;s birthplace correctly written in any family source, and I&#039;ve never seen a picture of his Iron Cross besides the one on his portrait. Does the Iron Cross still exist in the family or at a museum? Is he on a list of recipients somewhere? Has anyone done actual research on his early military career?

I have no reason to suspect that Wilcken didn&#039;t receive the Iron Cross, and I realize tracking down actual historical evidence involves a very specialized type of research (19th century German-language court and military records and histories and newspapers), but I think when the old stories continue to be repeated as they are here, people don&#039;t realize what is actually known, and what is not known about a pioneer&#039;s history.

Next, a note about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/library/pioneercompanysearch/1,15773,3966-1-2068,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel&lt;/a&gt; database. What a marvelous resource! Although he was not a member of the Church at the time, Wilcken is listed in the database, as is one of my ancestors who also traveled to Utah before he joined the Church. The database is inclusive enough to list the Australian converts to the Church including my Stapley-Bryant-Parkinson ancestors who traveled to Utah from the West, but I see that it is not inclusive enough to list Utah&#039;s territorial governors who crossed the Plains but did not join the Church.

If you have pioneer ancestry and would like an interesting project sometime, look up all your pioneer ancestors who traveled to Utah before 1868 and make sure they&#039;re in the database. If they aren&#039;t, all you need is supporting evidence such as the 1850 or 1860 census or ordinances performed in Utah before 1868 to have them included.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, Karen! A few notes.</p>
<p>First, if you follow the link in Wilcken&#8217;s section, it leads to a very interesting post from Ardis  about Wilcken&#8217;s experience. Ardis is the historian who hosts this blog and undoubtedly knows as much about the history of Johnston&#8217;s Army as any living person. (If not more.) You may enjoy reading her post and the comments.</p>
<p>About Wilcken&#8217;s history, I&#8217;ve never seen any proof that the family history has been adequately researched. I&#8217;ve rarely seen Wilcken&#8217;s birthplace correctly written in any family source, and I&#8217;ve never seen a picture of his Iron Cross besides the one on his portrait. Does the Iron Cross still exist in the family or at a museum? Is he on a list of recipients somewhere? Has anyone done actual research on his early military career?</p>
<p>I have no reason to suspect that Wilcken didn&#8217;t receive the Iron Cross, and I realize tracking down actual historical evidence involves a very specialized type of research (19th century German-language court and military records and histories and newspapers), but I think when the old stories continue to be repeated as they are here, people don&#8217;t realize what is actually known, and what is not known about a pioneer&#8217;s history.</p>
<p>Next, a note about the <a href="http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/library/pioneercompanysearch/1,15773,3966-1-2068,00.html" rel="nofollow">Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel</a> database. What a marvelous resource! Although he was not a member of the Church at the time, Wilcken is listed in the database, as is one of my ancestors who also traveled to Utah before he joined the Church. The database is inclusive enough to list the Australian converts to the Church including my Stapley-Bryant-Parkinson ancestors who traveled to Utah from the West, but I see that it is not inclusive enough to list Utah&#8217;s territorial governors who crossed the Plains but did not join the Church.</p>
<p>If you have pioneer ancestry and would like an interesting project sometime, look up all your pioneer ancestors who traveled to Utah before 1868 and make sure they&#8217;re in the database. If they aren&#8217;t, all you need is supporting evidence such as the 1850 or 1860 census or ordinances performed in Utah before 1868 to have them included.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Fox</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-244684</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 06:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-244684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amy, you write about Charles Henry Wilcken&#039;s travel to Utah.  He did not come by wagon train--he rode there with Johnston&#039;s Army.  So I would not list him as being a Mormon pioneer in the usual sense! 

Also, since he had been an outstanding soldier in the army in Prussia (and was awarded the Iron Cross), he ended up being useful to the top leadership of the LDS Church.  He helped their  hide polygamous families, was a go-between when husbands were in prison, and apparently knew when and how to bribe federal marshals so that he could help some of these men avoid arrest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy, you write about Charles Henry Wilcken&#8217;s travel to Utah.  He did not come by wagon train&#8211;he rode there with Johnston&#8217;s Army.  So I would not list him as being a Mormon pioneer in the usual sense! </p>
<p>Also, since he had been an outstanding soldier in the army in Prussia (and was awarded the Iron Cross), he ended up being useful to the top leadership of the LDS Church.  He helped their  hide polygamous families, was a go-between when husbands were in prison, and apparently knew when and how to bribe federal marshals so that he could help some of these men avoid arrest.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Compton</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-228398</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Compton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 05:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-228398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amy: I came to about the same conclusion on those sealings. A reporter contacted me about Miles&#039;s 12 &quot;marriages&quot; recently (and she may contact you). 

I&#039;m glad you did your research and writing, because it has certainly helped me!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy: I came to about the same conclusion on those sealings. A reporter contacted me about Miles&#8217;s 12 &#8220;marriages&#8221; recently (and she may contact you). </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you did your research and writing, because it has certainly helped me!</p>
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		<title>By: Amy T</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-228285</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 19:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-228285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Todd! I didn&#039;t see your write-up until this was almost ready to post, otherwise I probably wouldn&#039;t have bothered with all this research. : ) (Although it was fascinating.) I was tracking down some loose ends in my documentation last night and saw your new website and write-up. (&lt;a href=&quot;http://toddmcompton.com/romney_plural_lives.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Plural Lives&lt;/a&gt;.) Very interesting!

When you ask about Miles Romney&#039;s sealings, what kind of data do you mean? Family records do not list him as having entered any plural marriages, and the sealings as shown in NFS all took place on two days in 1872 to women who do not otherwise show up in the genealogical records. I haven&#039;t seen the actual temple records. I just looked again and do not see anything that would indicate any additional sealings besides the nine on May 6 and two on May 8. The two on May 8 were Ann King, who may have been a sister of Miles Romney&#039;s mother, and a woman named Margaret with no last name listed. Typical of the proxy sealings of that era. In addition, Miles doesn&#039;t show up in the vital records with additional wives. So although I cannot swear that he never entered a polygamous marriage, I haven&#039;t seen any indication that he did.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Todd! I didn&#8217;t see your write-up until this was almost ready to post, otherwise I probably wouldn&#8217;t have bothered with all this research. : ) (Although it was fascinating.) I was tracking down some loose ends in my documentation last night and saw your new website and write-up. (<a href="http://toddmcompton.com/romney_plural_lives.htm" rel="nofollow">Plural Lives</a>.) Very interesting!</p>
<p>When you ask about Miles Romney&#8217;s sealings, what kind of data do you mean? Family records do not list him as having entered any plural marriages, and the sealings as shown in NFS all took place on two days in 1872 to women who do not otherwise show up in the genealogical records. I haven&#8217;t seen the actual temple records. I just looked again and do not see anything that would indicate any additional sealings besides the nine on May 6 and two on May 8. The two on May 8 were Ann King, who may have been a sister of Miles Romney&#8217;s mother, and a woman named Margaret with no last name listed. Typical of the proxy sealings of that era. In addition, Miles doesn&#8217;t show up in the vital records with additional wives. So although I cannot swear that he never entered a polygamous marriage, I haven&#8217;t seen any indication that he did.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Compton</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-228114</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Compton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 06:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-228114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post, Amy. All the material on the LaFount side was new to me, and I&#039;ll cite you in my ongoing research on this subject.(I&#039;ve recently thoroughly reworked and expanded my website paper.) I also thoroughly enjoyed your Big Table post, and your genealogical blog is really superb, also (theancestorfiles.blogspot.com, for those of you who haven&#039;t seen it). I especially liked the green tea canister of Isabella Hood Hill, on your blog. It shows how artifacts can help fill out the historical picture, as Laurel Thatcher Ulrich has emphasized.

Do you have solid data on the ordinance in which Miles was sealed to a dozen women in 1872? I wonder if he was sealed to them as wives, or as ancestors. I haven&#039;t spent a lot of time on those 12 names, but they look like family names.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Amy. All the material on the LaFount side was new to me, and I&#8217;ll cite you in my ongoing research on this subject.(I&#8217;ve recently thoroughly reworked and expanded my website paper.) I also thoroughly enjoyed your Big Table post, and your genealogical blog is really superb, also (theancestorfiles.blogspot.com, for those of you who haven&#8217;t seen it). I especially liked the green tea canister of Isabella Hood Hill, on your blog. It shows how artifacts can help fill out the historical picture, as Laurel Thatcher Ulrich has emphasized.</p>
<p>Do you have solid data on the ordinance in which Miles was sealed to a dozen women in 1872? I wonder if he was sealed to them as wives, or as ancestors. I haven&#8217;t spent a lot of time on those 12 names, but they look like family names.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy T</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-224401</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 19:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-224401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It looks like Mark was correct about Hesse being a suspect location, and it looks like she was born in Neustadt in Holstein, and her family remained in the Lübeck area. That makes much more sense. I will correct that in the post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like Mark was correct about Hesse being a suspect location, and it looks like she was born in Neustadt in Holstein, and her family remained in the Lübeck area. That makes much more sense. I will correct that in the post.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy T</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-224324</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 12:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-224324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark -- I went back and looked, but I can&#039;t see that any of the histories I saw address that point. The possibilities would include his military service taking him there, her family moving north before their marriage, or that her birthplace was listed incorrectly in the sources I consulted. (Someone listed the wrong Neustadt, for example.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark &#8212; I went back and looked, but I can&#8217;t see that any of the histories I saw address that point. The possibilities would include his military service taking him there, her family moving north before their marriage, or that her birthplace was listed incorrectly in the sources I consulted. (Someone listed the wrong Neustadt, for example.)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-224172</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 19:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-224172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Beyond the scope of this survey, I&#039;ll admit, but the meeting and marriage of Carl Heinrich Wilcken and Eliza Reiche raises a question:  How did they meet?  Eckhorst is a village in Holstein, just a few kilometers west of Lubeck (which is on the Baltic) and Neustadt is in Hesse, nearly  500 km to the south.  In the 1850s, when Carl and Eliza met and married, 500 km was a time-consuming journey and Holstein and Hesse were separate countries--both leftovers from the final dissolution of the empire that was neither holy nor Roman nor an empire was but called that anyway.  

I suspect that the answer is lying (not a hen, だから) just beyond the fingertips of someone who reads this blog, so I&#039;ll save the time of looking it up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beyond the scope of this survey, I&#8217;ll admit, but the meeting and marriage of Carl Heinrich Wilcken and Eliza Reiche raises a question:  How did they meet?  Eckhorst is a village in Holstein, just a few kilometers west of Lubeck (which is on the Baltic) and Neustadt is in Hesse, nearly  500 km to the south.  In the 1850s, when Carl and Eliza met and married, 500 km was a time-consuming journey and Holstein and Hesse were separate countries&#8211;both leftovers from the final dissolution of the empire that was neither holy nor Roman nor an empire was but called that anyway.  </p>
<p>I suspect that the answer is lying (not a hen, だから) just beyond the fingertips of someone who reads this blog, so I&#8217;ll save the time of looking it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy T</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/05/15/guest-post-a-brief-guide-to-mitt-romneys-polygamous-heritage/comment-page-1/#comment-224167</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 18:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=17981#comment-224167</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, everyone, for your kind words.

I forgot to mention I got a note yesterday that the Wilckens had been added to the Pioneer Overland Travel Database. Eliza Reiche Wilcken and her two children weren&#039;t listed, so I sent a note and Sister Wood added them to the list of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/library/pioneercompanysearchresults/1,15792,4017-1-376,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1860 immigrants in unidentified companies&lt;/a&gt;.

The Overland Travel database is such an amazing historical resource.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, everyone, for your kind words.</p>
<p>I forgot to mention I got a note yesterday that the Wilckens had been added to the Pioneer Overland Travel Database. Eliza Reiche Wilcken and her two children weren&#8217;t listed, so I sent a note and Sister Wood added them to the list of <a href="http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/library/pioneercompanysearchresults/1,15792,4017-1-376,00.html" rel="nofollow">1860 immigrants in unidentified companies</a>.</p>
<p>The Overland Travel database is such an amazing historical resource.</p>
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