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	<title>Comments on: Guest Post: Mitt Romney, Blackness, and the Book of Mormon, Part I</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-220803</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 22:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-220803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad Confutus submitted those verses from Jacob. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://mormon.org/book-of-mormon/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Book of Mormon&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s purpose, as stated several times throughout the book, is not political so much as spiritual/religious. While we don&#039;t know the details of the &quot;curse&quot; of darkness the Lamanites brought on themselves, we know it was the result of disobeying the commandments; as seen with Moses&#039; Israelites, God will not be mocked. But He is also merciful, and those verses in Jacob prove that He loves all people equally, and His blessings are extended to all who turn to Him and let Him guide them. Color does not matter in the big-picture scheme, regardless of historic/political squabbles on the subject.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad Confutus submitted those verses from Jacob. The <a href="http://mormon.org/book-of-mormon/" rel="nofollow">Book of Mormon</a>&#8216;s purpose, as stated several times throughout the book, is not political so much as spiritual/religious. While we don&#8217;t know the details of the &#8220;curse&#8221; of darkness the Lamanites brought on themselves, we know it was the result of disobeying the commandments; as seen with Moses&#8217; Israelites, God will not be mocked. But He is also merciful, and those verses in Jacob prove that He loves all people equally, and His blessings are extended to all who turn to Him and let Him guide them. Color does not matter in the big-picture scheme, regardless of historic/political squabbles on the subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Reeve</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-202809</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Reeve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-202809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BHonest, 
It is not clear to me who you are accusing of dishonesty, me, Ardis, or the LDS Church?  If me, I will merely point to two sentences from the post that incorporate the ideas from the Kimball quote: 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Mormon leaders sometimes encouraged intermarriage with Indians as one method of lifting them toward a “white and delightsome” destiny and Mormons did read the verses cited in highly racialized ways. Even still there are internally consistent ways of reading the “white and delightsome” verses that are not nearly as racialized, readings that better characterize a twenty-first century engagement with the text than that of the past. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
 
The structure of the two sentences above are designed to indicate change over time.  In the 19th and 20th centuries the post acknowledges that Mormons read the “white and delightsome” verses in highly racialized ways, and then points to a potential alternative way of reading the same verses that attempts to capture more recent engagements with the text. 
 
If your intent is to embarrass or shock people with quotes from past Mormon leaders, I think you have picked the wrong blog.  My experience with Keepa readers is that they are a highly educated group who value Keepa for its honesty and forthright engagement with the past.  I dare say many are familiar with Kimball’s statement. It is a favorite among those who don’t like the LDS Church.  Using it here to suggest that the post is somehow dishonest, however, comes across as disingenuous.  There are web sites a plenty with strings of quotes from past LDS leaders.  Quote mining is easy.  Situating those quotes within broader textual and historical contexts, paying attention to change and continuity over time, attempting to understand historical figures on their own terms, not mine, takes a bit more time and effort than passing around quotes.  It ultimately reaches for a higher standard of honesty as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BHonest,<br />
It is not clear to me who you are accusing of dishonesty, me, Ardis, or the LDS Church?  If me, I will merely point to two sentences from the post that incorporate the ideas from the Kimball quote: </p>
<blockquote><p>Mormon leaders sometimes encouraged intermarriage with Indians as one method of lifting them toward a “white and delightsome” destiny and Mormons did read the verses cited in highly racialized ways. Even still there are internally consistent ways of reading the “white and delightsome” verses that are not nearly as racialized, readings that better characterize a twenty-first century engagement with the text than that of the past. </p></blockquote>
<p>The structure of the two sentences above are designed to indicate change over time.  In the 19th and 20th centuries the post acknowledges that Mormons read the “white and delightsome” verses in highly racialized ways, and then points to a potential alternative way of reading the same verses that attempts to capture more recent engagements with the text. </p>
<p>If your intent is to embarrass or shock people with quotes from past Mormon leaders, I think you have picked the wrong blog.  My experience with Keepa readers is that they are a highly educated group who value Keepa for its honesty and forthright engagement with the past.  I dare say many are familiar with Kimball’s statement. It is a favorite among those who don’t like the LDS Church.  Using it here to suggest that the post is somehow dishonest, however, comes across as disingenuous.  There are web sites a plenty with strings of quotes from past LDS leaders.  Quote mining is easy.  Situating those quotes within broader textual and historical contexts, paying attention to change and continuity over time, attempting to understand historical figures on their own terms, not mine, takes a bit more time and effort than passing around quotes.  It ultimately reaches for a higher standard of honesty as well.</p>
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		<title>By: BHonest</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-202713</link>
		<dc:creator>BHonest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-202713</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The BOM verses about skin color changing to show sin or repentance were meant and taken literally.  Just read how LDS leaders interpreted them: 

“The day of the Lamanites is nigh.  For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.  In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos; five were darker but equally delightsome.  The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation....  At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents on the same reservation, in the same Hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.  There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation.  These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and delightsomeness.  One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.”

LDS Prophet Spencer W. Kimball (before he became president), General Conference, Oct. 1960

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The BOM verses about skin color changing to show sin or repentance were meant and taken literally.  Just read how LDS leaders interpreted them: </p>
<p>“The day of the Lamanites is nigh.  For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.  In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos; five were darker but equally delightsome.  The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation&#8230;.  At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents on the same reservation, in the same Hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.  There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation.  These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and delightsomeness.  One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.”</p>
<p>LDS Prophet Spencer W. Kimball (before he became president), General Conference, Oct. 1960</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Reeve</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-201511</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Reeve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-201511</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tyson, Thanks for the information from Skousen.  The difficulty is in knowing why JS did what he did.  He so rarely lets us into his head.  My sentence could likely use refinement, but I&#039;m still reluctant to see race in &quot;white&quot; and &quot;blackness&quot;.  Why &quot;scales&quot; in v. 6, not skin?  Why darkness and not &quot;blackness&quot;?  Even if Smith had left it &quot;white&quot; in v. 6 I think one could read it as meaning pure.  
The unrecoverable aspect here is what did &quot;white&quot; and &quot;blackness&quot; and &quot;skin&quot; and &quot;scales&quot; and &quot;garments&quot; mean to Nephi and how does one translate those ideas into 19th century English and what do they mean to JS?  Mormonism is born during a second wave of national concern over race and race mixing.  They are charged words in that context and I think early Mormons read them racially.  I&#039;m just not convinced that they need to be read racially.  Whatever JS&#039;s reason(s) for changing &quot;white&quot; to &quot;pure&quot; in v. 6, the very fact of the change suggests that language is not precise and he was attempting to refine it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyson, Thanks for the information from Skousen.  The difficulty is in knowing why JS did what he did.  He so rarely lets us into his head.  My sentence could likely use refinement, but I&#8217;m still reluctant to see race in &#8220;white&#8221; and &#8220;blackness&#8221;.  Why &#8220;scales&#8221; in v. 6, not skin?  Why darkness and not &#8220;blackness&#8221;?  Even if Smith had left it &#8220;white&#8221; in v. 6 I think one could read it as meaning pure.<br />
The unrecoverable aspect here is what did &#8220;white&#8221; and &#8220;blackness&#8221; and &#8220;skin&#8221; and &#8220;scales&#8221; and &#8220;garments&#8221; mean to Nephi and how does one translate those ideas into 19th century English and what do they mean to JS?  Mormonism is born during a second wave of national concern over race and race mixing.  They are charged words in that context and I think early Mormons read them racially.  I&#8217;m just not convinced that they need to be read racially.  Whatever JS&#8217;s reason(s) for changing &#8220;white&#8221; to &#8220;pure&#8221; in v. 6, the very fact of the change suggests that language is not precise and he was attempting to refine it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyson E</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-201229</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyson E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 05:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-201229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;There is evidence that even Joseph Smith, Jr., saw “white” as a synonym for “pure” in some instances, a view that points to a spiritual redemption from sin rather than an actual change in skin color.&lt;/em&gt;

Our understanding of Joseph Smith&#039;s view of these passages seems to be murky to me (he may have interpreted some of these passages racially). Royal Skousen on pages 895 to 899 of his Analysis of Textual Variants of the Book of Mormon provides an alternative way to understand the change in the 1840 edition from &quot;white&quot; to &quot;pure&quot; in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/30.6?lang=eng#2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2 Nephi 30:6&lt;/a&gt; being made &quot;probably because of a perceived difficulty in allowing a change in skin color to apply to the descendants of the Nephites&quot;.

Skousen reasons that Joseph Smith may have seen &quot;the remnant of our seed&quot; in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/30.3-4?lang=eng#2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2 Nephi 30:3-4&lt;/a&gt; as referring to descendants of Nephi for whom a skin color change to white may not have made sense to Joseph Smith given that he may have seen descendants of Nephi as racially white already. Skousen seems to feel that Joseph Smith, if viewing these passages racially, overreacted in this case because for the time period which this passage is describing (after the Book of Mormon has come forth) significant interaction between descendants of Laman and Nephi would have made the two groups racially indistinguishable; thus making it possible for descendants of Nephi to experience a skin color change to a lighter color.

Skousen says, &quot;In other words, the editing change to &lt;em&gt;pure&lt;/em&gt; may represent a conscious attempt at avoiding what was perceived as a difficult reading (the Nephites are supposed to be light skinned), which therefore explains why the change from &lt;em&gt;white&lt;/em&gt; to &lt;em&gt;pure&lt;/em&gt; was made here - and only here - in 2 Nephi 30:6.&quot;

Notice Skousen uses many qualifiers in making this argument leading me to believe that it is not clear if Joseph made this change to fix a reading that he may have seen as difficult in a racial framework or if he wanted to make it clear that skin color change was not the intended meaning of these passages throughout the Book of Mormon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>There is evidence that even Joseph Smith, Jr., saw “white” as a synonym for “pure” in some instances, a view that points to a spiritual redemption from sin rather than an actual change in skin color.</em></p>
<p>Our understanding of Joseph Smith&#8217;s view of these passages seems to be murky to me (he may have interpreted some of these passages racially). Royal Skousen on pages 895 to 899 of his Analysis of Textual Variants of the Book of Mormon provides an alternative way to understand the change in the 1840 edition from &#8220;white&#8221; to &#8220;pure&#8221; in <a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/30.6?lang=eng#2" rel="nofollow">2 Nephi 30:6</a> being made &#8220;probably because of a perceived difficulty in allowing a change in skin color to apply to the descendants of the Nephites&#8221;.</p>
<p>Skousen reasons that Joseph Smith may have seen &#8220;the remnant of our seed&#8221; in <a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/30.3-4?lang=eng#2" rel="nofollow">2 Nephi 30:3-4</a> as referring to descendants of Nephi for whom a skin color change to white may not have made sense to Joseph Smith given that he may have seen descendants of Nephi as racially white already. Skousen seems to feel that Joseph Smith, if viewing these passages racially, overreacted in this case because for the time period which this passage is describing (after the Book of Mormon has come forth) significant interaction between descendants of Laman and Nephi would have made the two groups racially indistinguishable; thus making it possible for descendants of Nephi to experience a skin color change to a lighter color.</p>
<p>Skousen says, &#8220;In other words, the editing change to <em>pure</em> may represent a conscious attempt at avoiding what was perceived as a difficult reading (the Nephites are supposed to be light skinned), which therefore explains why the change from <em>white</em> to <em>pure</em> was made here &#8211; and only here &#8211; in 2 Nephi 30:6.&#8221;</p>
<p>Notice Skousen uses many qualifiers in making this argument leading me to believe that it is not clear if Joseph made this change to fix a reading that he may have seen as difficult in a racial framework or if he wanted to make it clear that skin color change was not the intended meaning of these passages throughout the Book of Mormon.</p>
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		<title>By: BHodges</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-199948</link>
		<dc:creator>BHodges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-199948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hmm, Matt Bowman was recently featured at HuffPo, I wonder if he can put you in touch with an editor or something.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, Matt Bowman was recently featured at HuffPo, I wonder if he can put you in touch with an editor or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Reeve</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-199930</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Reeve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 19:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-199930</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Maurine.  I have no plans.  I wrote the two posts initially in response to the Huffington Post editorial (to which Ardis provides a link) but I could not even get the HuffPost to respond to my e-mails.  By that time Ardis knew that I had written the responses and asked to share them on Keepa.  I of course said yes.  I&#039;m not terribly ambitious with this type of thing, so I don&#039;t have other plans.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Maurine.  I have no plans.  I wrote the two posts initially in response to the Huffington Post editorial (to which Ardis provides a link) but I could not even get the HuffPost to respond to my e-mails.  By that time Ardis knew that I had written the responses and asked to share them on Keepa.  I of course said yes.  I&#8217;m not terribly ambitious with this type of thing, so I don&#8217;t have other plans.</p>
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		<title>By: rah</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-199891</link>
		<dc:creator>rah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-199891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am hopeful that the newer work on deconstructing the BoM text and more nuanced readings which problematize the racial dynamics/beliefs is starting to work its way through lessons by good GD teachers. I have been particularly influenced by Jared Hickman&#039;s work in this area. However, embracing these types of interpretation will take Mormons as a whole becoming more comfortable with liberation theology/social justice types of interpretations of scripture.  That is a long leap for many Mormons to make.

However, I don&#039;t think the BoM is our problem. As direction of the thread indicates, it is the very problematic history of the priesthood ban, the doctrines/teachings used to bolster it, and the beliefs and actions of Mormons, from its lay members to our highest leaders.  The central, difficult question for Mormons is whether the priesthood ban was divinely inspired, an edict from God.  That&#039;s the whole game. The leadership has been reluctant to approach that question in any form.  The roll-out of the change, the language around it at best still imply that the ban was God&#039;s will at some point. I don&#039;t think we live this down in the media or put this to rest within our own community until that question is answered - either through an official statement or through coming organically to a communal consensus.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am hopeful that the newer work on deconstructing the BoM text and more nuanced readings which problematize the racial dynamics/beliefs is starting to work its way through lessons by good GD teachers. I have been particularly influenced by Jared Hickman&#8217;s work in this area. However, embracing these types of interpretation will take Mormons as a whole becoming more comfortable with liberation theology/social justice types of interpretations of scripture.  That is a long leap for many Mormons to make.</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t think the BoM is our problem. As direction of the thread indicates, it is the very problematic history of the priesthood ban, the doctrines/teachings used to bolster it, and the beliefs and actions of Mormons, from its lay members to our highest leaders.  The central, difficult question for Mormons is whether the priesthood ban was divinely inspired, an edict from God.  That&#8217;s the whole game. The leadership has been reluctant to approach that question in any form.  The roll-out of the change, the language around it at best still imply that the ban was God&#8217;s will at some point. I don&#8217;t think we live this down in the media or put this to rest within our own community until that question is answered &#8211; either through an official statement or through coming organically to a communal consensus.</p>
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		<title>By: Maurine Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-199807</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurine Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 07:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-199807</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amen to #23, Ardis.

Paul&#039;s post is needs to get out where people other than LDS can see it. Are you planning to do a broader dissemination of it, Paul, than what is here on the blog?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to #23, Ardis.</p>
<p>Paul&#8217;s post is needs to get out where people other than LDS can see it. Are you planning to do a broader dissemination of it, Paul, than what is here on the blog?</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/02/14/guest-post-mitt-romney-blackness-and-the-book-of-mormon-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-199670</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=16812#comment-199670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The effect of such inaccurate reporting tends to be the same, whatever the original cause. I am grateful to the Paul Reeves of the Church who can identify and correct the errors, and who are willing to put their names and ideas out there -- as much because Church members need their understanding, as that &quot;the world&quot; does.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The effect of such inaccurate reporting tends to be the same, whatever the original cause. I am grateful to the Paul Reeves of the Church who can identify and correct the errors, and who are willing to put their names and ideas out there &#8212; as much because Church members need their understanding, as that &#8220;the world&#8221; does.</p>
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