Comments on: I Have a Question, 1903

By: Grant

Grant — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 23:37:30 +0000

Kevinf-
I think we’re hijacking slightly. I never was in the OA nor liked it ignoring my own tap-out. I have been dealing with some Scouting issues including hazing on my blog. I have a follower who is trying to provoke more. Still thinking . . .

By: kevinf

kevinf — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 21:29:27 +0000

After following the links, I am stunned that my offhand remark about the OA actually has some history behind it. I opted out of the OA as a scout. It smacked of elitism and celebrated, in my mind, hazing (or bullying) as part of the ordeal, and I declined the nomination. All of the noble purposes seemed to be lost to the 14 year old boys who ran the program then.

Sorry, didn’t mean to take a negative tone to all of this, but my BSA experience was not a halcyon moment in my youth. When I served as Scoutmaster, I tried to take a kinder, gentler approach than what I was exposed to.

By: J. Stapley

J. Stapley — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 19:21:56 +0000

I just remembered this post on oath-bound organizations, which is better than I thought it would be in retrospect.

By: J. Stapley

J. Stapley — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 19:15:58 +0000

At the end of the 19th and in the early 20th century, fraternal organizations were very popular precisely because of the insurance benefits. This was a constant discussion by church leaders, and Beneficial Life, was established to compete with these services.

McConkie was very much after this and represents more of an affinity with Joseph Fielding Smith than to Joseph F. Smith.

By: Grant

Grant — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 17:22:07 +0000

The OA is only an appendage to the BSA and is, therefore, only a lesser “authorized by the Church” program tangentially. I guess the same goes for Woodbadge except my bishop made me go. (and it really was worth it!)

By: andrew h

andrew h — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 16:52:55 +0000

Other Clark

It makes sense that this would sound a lot like “McConkie Mormonism.” As you know, Joseph F Smith was prophet in 1903 and McConkie was a very big fan of Joseph F. Smith (his grandfather in law) and quoted him frequently. In fact, if I am remembering correctly, in Mo Doc his section on “card playing” (since you mention it) was a direct quote of JFS (or JFS II)

By: The Other Clark

The Other Clark — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 16:33:35 +0000

Yeah, but OA is connected to the Church, so it’s OK. It’s the same loophole exploited by the Danites

The “protects our families” line makes me wonder if they weren’t referring to the Odd Fellows, who offered a primitive type of insurance for members.

These answers have a strain of “McKonkie Mormonism” (which happens to be the flavor I grew up with). Face cards, raffles, the Elks lodge; all diabolical.

The list of BoM languages is intriguing (Hawaiian, Welsh and Hindostani?) as is the answers about dispensations and priesthood.

And within a few years after this was printed, the patriarch question would no longer be hypothetical.

By: Mark B.

Mark B. — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 16:29:08 +0000

I think that if the missionary’s horse needs to be sold, let all the men pay their dollar and give forth their lots and on whichever person the lot falls, let him be numbered with all the other horse-owners (who of course do not constitute a fraternal order).

By: kevinf

kevinf — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 15:48:46 +0000

I would definitely list the BSA Order of the Arrow as a secret society.