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	<title>Comments on: And They Called it Mother&#8217;s Day</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62754</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 17:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We are able to analyze both stories this way in 2011 because we now have the language to do it, and because recognition of women and our needs and wants and abilities and rights has advanced so far. 

In 1933 (this story) and 1943 (the dishwashing Grandma), I wonder whether women would have been able to have this conversation. I think not, at least in the same terms -- what would have been available to them was the cheering that has been expressed on both stories by readers who recognized that a wrong had been committed and that a normally passive woman was rebelling against it. 

Even though I think you&#039;re ultimately right, Researcher, I suspect stories like these met a need for women in 1933 and 1943 that was available &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; in these passive-aggressive terms. They&#039;re like fairy tales where the princess has stood up to the dragon and there is a promise of happily-ever-after, however unrealistic that promise was.

(In any case, I hope everyone realizes that all comments are welcome, whether you like the stories or not, whether you&#039;re looking at them from 2011 or attempting to guess what they meant to mid-century readers. That undoubtedly means that conflicting opinions will appear -- great! Let&#039;s have &#039;em all.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are able to analyze both stories this way in 2011 because we now have the language to do it, and because recognition of women and our needs and wants and abilities and rights has advanced so far. </p>
<p>In 1933 (this story) and 1943 (the dishwashing Grandma), I wonder whether women would have been able to have this conversation. I think not, at least in the same terms &#8212; what would have been available to them was the cheering that has been expressed on both stories by readers who recognized that a wrong had been committed and that a normally passive woman was rebelling against it. </p>
<p>Even though I think you&#8217;re ultimately right, Researcher, I suspect stories like these met a need for women in 1933 and 1943 that was available <em>only</em> in these passive-aggressive terms. They&#8217;re like fairy tales where the princess has stood up to the dragon and there is a promise of happily-ever-after, however unrealistic that promise was.</p>
<p>(In any case, I hope everyone realizes that all comments are welcome, whether you like the stories or not, whether you&#8217;re looking at them from 2011 or attempting to guess what they meant to mid-century readers. That undoubtedly means that conflicting opinions will appear &#8212; great! Let&#8217;s have &#8216;em all.)</p>
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		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62746</link>
		<dc:creator>Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 16:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62746</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PDoE, I agree with you but chose to be silly rather than analytical in my comment.

A week or two ago, Ardis posted a story about a Grandma who had been doing dishes her whole life. She finally, in one energetic burst, went and got a job and left her daughter in law and granddaughters to do all the dishes. The commenters on that post said, more or less: way to go, Grandma!

I totally disagreed, although I didn&#039;t comment. If her daughter in law was a woman of good humor, perhaps the story would have an ultimately good ending, but if not, her daughter in law would always hold it against Grandma that Grandma won a major battle in the passive aggressive wars. And then as Grandma aged, and her daughter in law again had the &quot;upper hand,&quot; Grandma could become subject to emotional neglect at the best, and elder abuse at the worst.

It&#039;s so much better to have good, open, honest communication, to discuss expectations, to figure out ways to get along, and to forge bonds of affection rather than competition in families. I realize that&#039;s not always a realistic goal. Sometimes the dysfunctional behavior may be so ingrained that theatrics may be the only real solution. I don&#039;t know.

But the real issue in both of these stories is that the women lacked any real negotiating power. Perhaps they had tried and not had enough power to negotiate a change in household chores or some basic consideration of their emotional needs. The lack of power could be due to economic reasons (a major issue for many women throughout history), reasons of personality, or other variables. In the one case, becoming a wage earner seemed to gain Grandma some power. In the other case Mary held the threat of abandonment over her family to attempt to gain some power.

In both cases, though, is there really any hope that the attempt to shift power within the family will change any of the underlying issues? Will it change all of the passive aggressive behavior? Will Mary&#039;s husband really remember the Fourth of July, let alone Christmas? If you read carefully, you will note that he did not promise to remember her birthday or their anniversary, so he was being condescending rather than serious in his response to her behavior, and did not cede the smallest bit of his position of ultimate and overwhelming power in their relationship.

What a sad story.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PDoE, I agree with you but chose to be silly rather than analytical in my comment.</p>
<p>A week or two ago, Ardis posted a story about a Grandma who had been doing dishes her whole life. She finally, in one energetic burst, went and got a job and left her daughter in law and granddaughters to do all the dishes. The commenters on that post said, more or less: way to go, Grandma!</p>
<p>I totally disagreed, although I didn&#8217;t comment. If her daughter in law was a woman of good humor, perhaps the story would have an ultimately good ending, but if not, her daughter in law would always hold it against Grandma that Grandma won a major battle in the passive aggressive wars. And then as Grandma aged, and her daughter in law again had the &#8220;upper hand,&#8221; Grandma could become subject to emotional neglect at the best, and elder abuse at the worst.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s so much better to have good, open, honest communication, to discuss expectations, to figure out ways to get along, and to forge bonds of affection rather than competition in families. I realize that&#8217;s not always a realistic goal. Sometimes the dysfunctional behavior may be so ingrained that theatrics may be the only real solution. I don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>But the real issue in both of these stories is that the women lacked any real negotiating power. Perhaps they had tried and not had enough power to negotiate a change in household chores or some basic consideration of their emotional needs. The lack of power could be due to economic reasons (a major issue for many women throughout history), reasons of personality, or other variables. In the one case, becoming a wage earner seemed to gain Grandma some power. In the other case Mary held the threat of abandonment over her family to attempt to gain some power.</p>
<p>In both cases, though, is there really any hope that the attempt to shift power within the family will change any of the underlying issues? Will it change all of the passive aggressive behavior? Will Mary&#8217;s husband really remember the Fourth of July, let alone Christmas? If you read carefully, you will note that he did not promise to remember her birthday or their anniversary, so he was being condescending rather than serious in his response to her behavior, and did not cede the smallest bit of his position of ultimate and overwhelming power in their relationship.</p>
<p>What a sad story.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62734</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 15:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read this as a direct slap at neglectful husbands and a condemnation of the &quot;traditional&quot; expectations of women by men who take them for granted and abuse &quot;a little authority, as they suppose&quot;.  

I especially was interested in the inclusion of the radio message from &quot;a masculine voice&quot;: 

&quot;To our mothers,” roared out a masculine voice over the air, “we owe everything. We honor them!” 

There&#039;s a whole post and comment thread begging to be written in that line alone and its placement in the overall message.  Suffice it to say that the more things change, the more they stay the same in too many cases.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this as a direct slap at neglectful husbands and a condemnation of the &#8220;traditional&#8221; expectations of women by men who take them for granted and abuse &#8220;a little authority, as they suppose&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I especially was interested in the inclusion of the radio message from &#8220;a masculine voice&#8221;: </p>
<p>&#8220;To our mothers,” roared out a masculine voice over the air, “we owe everything. We honor them!” </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a whole post and comment thread begging to be written in that line alone and its placement in the overall message.  Suffice it to say that the more things change, the more they stay the same in too many cases.</p>
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		<title>By: proud daughter of eve</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62717</link>
		<dc:creator>proud daughter of eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 14:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After further thought, I think #3 has some good points but here&#039;s another way to look at it: Mary needs to stand up for herself!  She&#039;s waiting for her family to intuit her needs and while it&#039;s great when they do, you can&#039;t count on it.  If she&#039;s a victim in this, she&#039;s been a willing victim for some time and just choosing to run off for awhile (what if her family had called the police?) is passive-aggressive and just plain stupid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After further thought, I think #3 has some good points but here&#8217;s another way to look at it: Mary needs to stand up for herself!  She&#8217;s waiting for her family to intuit her needs and while it&#8217;s great when they do, you can&#8217;t count on it.  If she&#8217;s a victim in this, she&#8217;s been a willing victim for some time and just choosing to run off for awhile (what if her family had called the police?) is passive-aggressive and just plain stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62646</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 02:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How fitting that this comes so soon after the Divorce post!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How fitting that this comes so soon after the Divorce post!</p>
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		<title>By: proud daughter of eve</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62636</link>
		<dc:creator>proud daughter of eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 00:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think there&#039;s a typo in there.  It read &quot;over-indulgent&quot; husband; it should have said &quot;over-indulged.&quot;  At least in my humble opinion. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a typo in there.  It read &#8220;over-indulgent&#8221; husband; it should have said &#8220;over-indulged.&#8221;  At least in my humble opinion. </p>
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		<title>By: living in zion</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62606</link>
		<dc:creator>living in zion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 21:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with #3.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with #3.</p>
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		<title>By: HokieKate</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62596</link>
		<dc:creator>HokieKate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 20:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Even today, three years of marriage is plenty of time for EVERYONE to start asking a couple why they don&#039;t have kids. People started assuming my husband and I were infertile around our third anniversary (this would be three years ago at BYU). I liked that the story had a couple without kids yet, after &quot;only three years&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even today, three years of marriage is plenty of time for EVERYONE to start asking a couple why they don&#8217;t have kids. People started assuming my husband and I were infertile around our third anniversary (this would be three years ago at BYU). I liked that the story had a couple without kids yet, after &#8220;only three years&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62594</link>
		<dc:creator>Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 20:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62594</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow. One small gesture of independence is going to fix years of neglect? 

Right. 

Let&#039;s be realistic here.

Mary will arrive home to a husband who is mad that she has humiliated him and offended his parents and other relatives. He either reads her the riot act or gives her the dreaded silent treatment. (Or both.) The kids will all still be up, so tired that they have pulled everything in the house out and it will take days to repair the damage. The baby will be up, crying, hungry, and needing its diaper changed. Food will be left out all over the kitchen and dirty dishes will be piled high. The in-laws will start gossiping about Mary among all their acquaintances, she will have been seen by herself in a cafe on a Sunday evening, and her reputation will never survive the ordeal.

Happy Mother&#039;s Day, Mary!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. One small gesture of independence is going to fix years of neglect? </p>
<p>Right. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s be realistic here.</p>
<p>Mary will arrive home to a husband who is mad that she has humiliated him and offended his parents and other relatives. He either reads her the riot act or gives her the dreaded silent treatment. (Or both.) The kids will all still be up, so tired that they have pulled everything in the house out and it will take days to repair the damage. The baby will be up, crying, hungry, and needing its diaper changed. Food will be left out all over the kitchen and dirty dishes will be piled high. The in-laws will start gossiping about Mary among all their acquaintances, she will have been seen by herself in a cafe on a Sunday evening, and her reputation will never survive the ordeal.</p>
<p>Happy Mother&#8217;s Day, Mary!</p>
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		<title>By: E. Wallace</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/05/05/and-they-called-it-mothers-day/comment-page-1/#comment-62588</link>
		<dc:creator>E. Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 19:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10976#comment-62588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh jeez. Sometimes I forget how grateful I am to live in the 21st century.

Is the bit about &quot;We have only been married a little over three years&quot; supposed to be kind of a slam at Stella and Fred?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh jeez. Sometimes I forget how grateful I am to live in the 21st century.</p>
<p>Is the bit about &#8220;We have only been married a little over three years&#8221; supposed to be kind of a slam at Stella and Fred?</p>
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