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	<title>Comments on: A Lecture I Know I&#8217;ll Have to Give</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Naismith</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-61295</link>
		<dc:creator>Naismith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-61295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks so much for this.  It was such an eye-opener to see how things might be different elsewhere.  

It&#039;s hard to wrap my brain around the idea of a ward with that many active people.  Not to mention class members speaking from their experience &quot;from their time serving as mission presidents, or general board members, or as members of the Tabernacle Choir.&quot;  Amazing.  

The last time I taught Gospel Doctrine, there were two non-members in the class.  We told them about Gospel Essentials class, but it happened that we were in the bible, and that&#039;s what they wanted to study.  So meeting their needs and those of the more mature members was a challenge.

I felt like a big part of my calling was praying for the class members, asking to know what they needed to learn.  That would be harder with a larger class and folks moving in and out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for this.  It was such an eye-opener to see how things might be different elsewhere.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to wrap my brain around the idea of a ward with that many active people.  Not to mention class members speaking from their experience &#8220;from their time serving as mission presidents, or general board members, or as members of the Tabernacle Choir.&#8221;  Amazing.  </p>
<p>The last time I taught Gospel Doctrine, there were two non-members in the class.  We told them about Gospel Essentials class, but it happened that we were in the bible, and that&#8217;s what they wanted to study.  So meeting their needs and those of the more mature members was a challenge.</p>
<p>I felt like a big part of my calling was praying for the class members, asking to know what they needed to learn.  That would be harder with a larger class and folks moving in and out.</p>
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		<title>By: David B</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-61033</link>
		<dc:creator>David B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 02:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-61033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@lindberg (#21): Back when i was in grad school (in linguistics), in a couple conference presentations i showed a slide reading, in large letters, &#8220;So what?&#8221; right before the conclusions section. It was a good laugh line, but then when i gave a presentation and didn&#8217;t include that slide, i had a couple people come up to me afterward and say they missed it—so now i include it in every single presentation i give, and i&#8217;ve started using it when i substitute teach church classes, too.

Which is a long way of saying you&#8217;re not alone in your approach.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lindberg (#21): Back when i was in grad school (in linguistics), in a couple conference presentations i showed a slide reading, in large letters, &ldquo;So what?&rdquo; right before the conclusions section. It was a good laugh line, but then when i gave a presentation and didn&rsquo;t include that slide, i had a couple people come up to me afterward and say they missed it—so now i include it in every single presentation i give, and i&rsquo;ve started using it when i substitute teach church classes, too.</p>
<p>Which is a long way of saying you&rsquo;re not alone in your approach.</p>
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		<title>By: lindberg</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-60997</link>
		<dc:creator>lindberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 00:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-60997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I taught GD, I tried to end every lesson with five minutes asking the questions &quot;So what?  Who cares?&quot;, with the hope that everyone could answer the latter with &quot;I do!&quot; and the former with some part of the lesson that was personally relevant to them.

(I like to claim that the reason I only lasted in the calling for three weeks was that the bishop walked in as I was asking &quot;so what?  Who cares?&quot;)

We currently have two GD classes, nominally divided alphabetically by last name.  Each class has two teachers that trade off.  I&#039;ve thought I should check out the other class sometime (I&#039;m kind of on the dividing line anyway, as an &quot;L&quot;), but I&#039;m also a creature of habit.

One of the teachers in my class is great at bringing in cultural and geographical background, which has helped a lot -- lots of photos, maps, artwork, etc.  The other is better at relating the lesson to his personal experiences.  Both approaches are useful, IMHO.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I taught GD, I tried to end every lesson with five minutes asking the questions &#8220;So what?  Who cares?&#8221;, with the hope that everyone could answer the latter with &#8220;I do!&#8221; and the former with some part of the lesson that was personally relevant to them.</p>
<p>(I like to claim that the reason I only lasted in the calling for three weeks was that the bishop walked in as I was asking &#8220;so what?  Who cares?&#8221;)</p>
<p>We currently have two GD classes, nominally divided alphabetically by last name.  Each class has two teachers that trade off.  I&#8217;ve thought I should check out the other class sometime (I&#8217;m kind of on the dividing line anyway, as an &#8220;L&#8221;), but I&#8217;m also a creature of habit.</p>
<p>One of the teachers in my class is great at bringing in cultural and geographical background, which has helped a lot &#8212; lots of photos, maps, artwork, etc.  The other is better at relating the lesson to his personal experiences.  Both approaches are useful, IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Moniker Challenged</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-60972</link>
		<dc:creator>Moniker Challenged</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 22:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-60972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wait, so does this mean talking about beating up homosexuals and Democrats having invisible triple 6s on their foreheads is off limits?  Because that would really truncate Sunday School in some of the wards I&#039;ve been in--oi!  I&#039;m sure your admirable efforts to gently but firmly guide discussion away from Crazytown and back to Cogent Falls are appreciated.  Keepa up the good work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, so does this mean talking about beating up homosexuals and Democrats having invisible triple 6s on their foreheads is off limits?  Because that would really truncate Sunday School in some of the wards I&#8217;ve been in&#8211;oi!  I&#8217;m sure your admirable efforts to gently but firmly guide discussion away from Crazytown and back to Cogent Falls are appreciated.  Keepa up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-60959</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Stapley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 22:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-60959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis,  I think that your last part of comment 6, is the real key.  Asking engaging questions and then pushing the class beyond the easy answer (or asking questions with no easy answer).  Golden.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis,  I think that your last part of comment 6, is the real key.  Asking engaging questions and then pushing the class beyond the easy answer (or asking questions with no easy answer).  Golden.</p>
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		<title>By: K.H.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-60945</link>
		<dc:creator>K.H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-60945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am soglad hat you are blessed to have a teaching calling again. With such a huge ward,all I can say is &quot;Good luck&quot; learning all those names

I have found that to be effective is to pray prepare and love your class.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am soglad hat you are blessed to have a teaching calling again. With such a huge ward,all I can say is &#8220;Good luck&#8221; learning all those names</p>
<p>I have found that to be effective is to pray prepare and love your class.</p>
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		<title>By: ji</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-60926</link>
		<dc:creator>ji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-60926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow!  I cannot imagine your ward dynamics, in such a large ward.  But to your point -- thanks -- we don&#039;t need to teach in Sunday School (or anywhere else) how others are wrong -- let&#039;s just teach the scriptures and the wonderful gospel of Jesus Christ.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  I cannot imagine your ward dynamics, in such a large ward.  But to your point &#8212; thanks &#8212; we don&#8217;t need to teach in Sunday School (or anywhere else) how others are wrong &#8212; let&#8217;s just teach the scriptures and the wonderful gospel of Jesus Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: David B</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-60921</link>
		<dc:creator>David B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-60921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Porterfield (#1): You have been lucky. &lt;b&gt;Way&lt;/b&gt; lucky. (Or else you&#8217;ve spent a lot of time as ward clerk, and so have had important &lt;ahem&#160;/&gt; work to do during Sunday school.

Anyway, on to the main topic at hand.

The best gospel doctrine class situation i have ever been a part of was the year i graduated from college. There were two classes, and people got to pick which one to go to. One was pretty much straight from the manual, and the other was a really intense, slow pass working through the scriptures. The &#8220;regular&#8221; class was much bigger, in terms of attendance; i went to the slower one. We were doing the Old Testament that year, and by the time i left for grad school (in August), the class i was in had &lt;i&gt;almost&lt;/i&gt; gotten to the ten commandments. (I found out later that they picked up the pace quite a bit after that, and ended the year somewhere in Deuteronomy.) I learned more really cool and esoteric—and, believe it or not, useful in a living-the-gospel way—stuff about the Law of Moses (and Babylonian creation myths, and historical concepts of family, and historical Holy Land geography, and…) in that class than anytime else in my life.

Of course, that was an interesting ward in a lot of different ways. (Arguably the most socially progressive set of church members in a single unit i&#8217;ve ever met in this country, to begin with.)

Fast-forward to this century…

Starting a few years ago, Jeanne (my wife) and i started going to the gospel essentials (principles?—i can never remember which one it&#8217;s called anymore) class instead of gospel doctrine. It started more or less by accident—there weren&#8217;t any seats left, so we wandered down the hall—but we quickly found that the discussions in gospel essentials bzw. principles were actually more interesting and generally required more actual thought on our parts than those in gospel doctrine. (Extra bonus: Meeting those investigating the church before most anybody else does.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Porterfield (#1): You have been lucky. <b>Way</b> lucky. (Or else you&rsquo;ve spent a lot of time as ward clerk, and so have had important &lt;ahem&nbsp;/&gt; work to do during Sunday school.</p>
<p>Anyway, on to the main topic at hand.</p>
<p>The best gospel doctrine class situation i have ever been a part of was the year i graduated from college. There were two classes, and people got to pick which one to go to. One was pretty much straight from the manual, and the other was a really intense, slow pass working through the scriptures. The &ldquo;regular&rdquo; class was much bigger, in terms of attendance; i went to the slower one. We were doing the Old Testament that year, and by the time i left for grad school (in August), the class i was in had <i>almost</i> gotten to the ten commandments. (I found out later that they picked up the pace quite a bit after that, and ended the year somewhere in Deuteronomy.) I learned more really cool and esoteric—and, believe it or not, useful in a living-the-gospel way—stuff about the Law of Moses (and Babylonian creation myths, and historical concepts of family, and historical Holy Land geography, and…) in that class than anytime else in my life.</p>
<p>Of course, that was an interesting ward in a lot of different ways. (Arguably the most socially progressive set of church members in a single unit i&rsquo;ve ever met in this country, to begin with.)</p>
<p>Fast-forward to this century…</p>
<p>Starting a few years ago, Jeanne (my wife) and i started going to the gospel essentials (principles?—i can never remember which one it&rsquo;s called anymore) class instead of gospel doctrine. It started more or less by accident—there weren&rsquo;t any seats left, so we wandered down the hall—but we quickly found that the discussions in gospel essentials bzw. principles were actually more interesting and generally required more actual thought on our parts than those in gospel doctrine. (Extra bonus: Meeting those investigating the church before most anybody else does.)</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-60900</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 19:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-60900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis, wonderful post.  I&#039;d love to sit in your class (and maybe I&#039;d be bold enough to participate!).

One of the best Sunday School classes I&#039;ve ever attended was in a brach I visited last year in Shanghai.  I&#039;m trying to think if it&#039;s because it was so recent that it seems best or if it really is best.  But the thing that I really appreciated was our instructor&#039;s (one of two I heard there) extensive preparation -- far more than she ever presented -- and her thoughtful approach in what she presented and in how she guided the discussion.  There was no comment that she did not weave back into her path.  And her path was so carefully laid out I wanted desperately to stay on it with her.

While I appreciate likening the scriptures unto me, I don&#039;t particularly like it when teachers put themselves into scripture stories as if they knew what Abraham or Peter were thinking.  I crave teachers who teach the scriptures and not just about them.  And I appreciate comments from class members that do the same.  (One of my favorite classmates was with me in a ward 20 years ago.  Any time somone said, &quot;There&#039;s a verse somewhere -- I can&#039;t remember where -- that says...&quot; he would then pipe up and cite the reference and quote it exactly.  (Well, not every time -- he wasn&#039;t obnoxious about it, but he was a lot of fun to have in class!))

I have taught in two wards with two gospel doctrine classes.  In both, students could choose their own class.  In one -- a newly-wed and nearly-dead ward, I taught in the RS room with soft chairs, so I got mostly older students (most of whome worked in the temple) while the newly weds attended with their small children in the gym.

Good luck in your new calling.  (And in your new ward!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis, wonderful post.  I&#8217;d love to sit in your class (and maybe I&#8217;d be bold enough to participate!).</p>
<p>One of the best Sunday School classes I&#8217;ve ever attended was in a brach I visited last year in Shanghai.  I&#8217;m trying to think if it&#8217;s because it was so recent that it seems best or if it really is best.  But the thing that I really appreciated was our instructor&#8217;s (one of two I heard there) extensive preparation &#8212; far more than she ever presented &#8212; and her thoughtful approach in what she presented and in how she guided the discussion.  There was no comment that she did not weave back into her path.  And her path was so carefully laid out I wanted desperately to stay on it with her.</p>
<p>While I appreciate likening the scriptures unto me, I don&#8217;t particularly like it when teachers put themselves into scripture stories as if they knew what Abraham or Peter were thinking.  I crave teachers who teach the scriptures and not just about them.  And I appreciate comments from class members that do the same.  (One of my favorite classmates was with me in a ward 20 years ago.  Any time somone said, &#8220;There&#8217;s a verse somewhere &#8212; I can&#8217;t remember where &#8212; that says&#8230;&#8221; he would then pipe up and cite the reference and quote it exactly.  (Well, not every time &#8212; he wasn&#8217;t obnoxious about it, but he was a lot of fun to have in class!))</p>
<p>I have taught in two wards with two gospel doctrine classes.  In both, students could choose their own class.  In one &#8212; a newly-wed and nearly-dead ward, I taught in the RS room with soft chairs, so I got mostly older students (most of whome worked in the temple) while the newly weds attended with their small children in the gym.</p>
<p>Good luck in your new calling.  (And in your new ward!)</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/04/28/a-lecture-i-know-ill-have-to-give/comment-page-1/#comment-60891</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=12038#comment-60891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reading these comments is giving me ideas. Clearly I&#039;m going to have to write posts that elicit more of this kind of response -- despite the often lackluster lessons we all must have been subjected to, it&#039;s obvious that there is also some amazing teaching going on, and that our pattern of lay teaching *can* work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading these comments is giving me ideas. Clearly I&#8217;m going to have to write posts that elicit more of this kind of response &#8212; despite the often lackluster lessons we all must have been subjected to, it&#8217;s obvious that there is also some amazing teaching going on, and that our pattern of lay teaching *can* work.</p>
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