Comments on: Hinc Lucem et Pocula Sacra

By: Kevin

Kevin — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:25:23 +0000

Well, if you want another funny “Mormon fraud” story – see the link below blaming the Mormon Battalion (1846) for making a Jewish inscription of the Ten Commandments in New Mexico.

The fact that the Battalion had marched 15 very hard miles along the Rio Grande River that day and that the inscription is is over 15 miles away from their campsite argues against any Battalion member being involved.

For the Battalion to be guilty, the perpetrator would have had to leave camp after arriving in late afternoon, journey 15 miles without a guide into Apache territory (something the local Mexican population were too scared to do), have known sufficient Hebrew to carve the Los Lunas stone during the dead of night and then return another 15 miles in time for roll call the next morning.

Sorry – it’s implausible for a Battalion member to have pulled this off. Move along people. Nothing here to see.

http://www.badarchaeology.net/forgotten/los_lunas.php

By: Steve C.

Steve C. — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 14:45:16 +0000

I think any fantastic story about the origin of the plate would have to include Moroni’s wandering in the wilderness before he deposited the plates. The use of Latin would suggest that Moroni was in cahoots with the Romans from the Spaulding manuscript.

By: Mina

Mina — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 04:30:52 +0000

I’ve been thinking about this plaque/story all day.

Hinc lucem et pocula sacra is also the motto of Cambridge University. Poculum is literally “cup” in latin, so the phrase is usually translated as “from here comes light and sacred draughts (of knowledge).”

Just thought I’d throw that into the mix…

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 20:50:18 +0000

Don't know, Clark. That's one reason I had hoped to identify Carl Lynn -- his baptism date would give a likely terminus post quem for installation. (Hey, it's fair to use that term for this Latin inscription!)

By: Clark

Clark — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 20:43:04 +0000

So how many years before 1910 had Mr. Lynn installed the plate?

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 20:21:38 +0000

Thanks for recognizing and stating that, Mina. I’ve tried to find out something about Carl Lynn, without success (yet). I’m very glad JET recorded his name, at least, so that there is the possibility of learning more about him. At the time he put up his tablet, the Grove was still in private hands, without any kind of outward marker at all.

By: Mina

Mina — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 19:46:45 +0000

Here’s hoping that copper plate still exists somewhere and will be eventually rediscovered. I like it a great deal: both the sentiment and the use of Latin. I also like it as an example of a humble person’s tribute: an artifact representing their idea of the best way to memorialize what they held sacred.

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 19:35:16 +0000

Cliff, it’s a real story, all right. Does that count?

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 19:34:18 +0000

Amy, their story is amazing without doubt and I appreciate your noting that — they deserve to be better known. As with most Mormon sites, though, missionaries have embellished the stories. The Beans’ oldest son did have to sit at a desk in the back of his classroom due to complaints by other parents that they didn’t want their children to have to go to school with a Mormon, but there is no indication that the desk (bolted to the floor) was facing other than forward. That lasted only a short time before the teacher became so ashamed that the Bean child was moved into a regular seat, without any apparent retaliation by other parents. (I’ve seen several variations of this story, and knowing how folklore works it seems far more likely that the original story has been embellished than that the original story has been toned down.) I love that they named their daughter born there “Palmyra”!

Observer, the MIA of my very own stake (Ensign Stake) placed that monument on Ensign Peak in 1934. The stones were gathered from various places along the Mormon Trail. There are other place names inscribed (some obliterated by vandalism) — I think that “Kolob” in this case refers to the MIA’s trip to Kolob Canyons (Zion) in southern Utah, and therefore only indirectly to the PoGP’s Kolob.

By: Cliff

Cliff — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 19:25:37 +0000

But I love the moonmen stories! Do you mean they are not real? I vote for Kevin’s!