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	<title>Comments on: “What Shall I Do?”: Paid Employment for Mormon Girls, 1927 &#8212; part 2: The Teacher</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%E2%80%9Cwhat-shall-i-do%E2%80%9D-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: ESO</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-42009</link>
		<dc:creator>ESO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 15:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-42009</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, no question.  I just wanted to point out that all manner of &quot;immoral&quot; behavior was cause for dismissal: riding in automobiles, playing cards, drinking on weekends, etc etc.  Historically, there was an effort to control the behavior of teachers, especially female ones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, no question.  I just wanted to point out that all manner of &#8220;immoral&#8221; behavior was cause for dismissal: riding in automobiles, playing cards, drinking on weekends, etc etc.  Historically, there was an effort to control the behavior of teachers, especially female ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-42007</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 15:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-42007</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ESO, in case there is any question, I don&#039;t necessarily endorse or adopt past rationale when I try to understand what they were thinking. I was surprised, though, to see &quot;giggling&quot; acknowledged as a reason, even in the footnote, and wasn&#039;t surprised to see &quot;health of the mother&quot; cited by the school districts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESO, in case there is any question, I don&#8217;t necessarily endorse or adopt past rationale when I try to understand what they were thinking. I was surprised, though, to see &#8220;giggling&#8221; acknowledged as a reason, even in the footnote, and wasn&#8217;t surprised to see &#8220;health of the mother&#8221; cited by the school districts.</p>
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		<title>By: ESO</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-41987</link>
		<dc:creator>ESO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-41987</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am not suggesting that any school board would write explicitly of their teachers&#039; being sexually active in their policies.  I am, however, suggesting that the reasons given are somewhat disingenuous.  Women who are not working at schools are hardly going on vacation--they are working at home.  And doing more physically taxing (and unpaid) work at that.  The &quot;health&quot; of the child and mother may very well be better served by having a better income, yet the woman is not given the opportunity to make that choice--the school board does it for her.

Also, continuity of instruction is a consideration, but certainly not reason enough for a policy like this.  I would guess that the same districts that had these policies regularly promoted male teachers into administrative positions in the middle of school years.  If continuity was really such a concern, there would be a policy against that too, wouldn&#039;t there?

Besides, if you do a cursory survey of your acquaintances who are teachers or who are the kids of teachers, you will find a statistically significant percentage were May/June/July babies, indicating that female teachers already do what they can not to interrupt instruction with reproduction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not suggesting that any school board would write explicitly of their teachers&#8217; being sexually active in their policies.  I am, however, suggesting that the reasons given are somewhat disingenuous.  Women who are not working at schools are hardly going on vacation&#8211;they are working at home.  And doing more physically taxing (and unpaid) work at that.  The &#8220;health&#8221; of the child and mother may very well be better served by having a better income, yet the woman is not given the opportunity to make that choice&#8211;the school board does it for her.</p>
<p>Also, continuity of instruction is a consideration, but certainly not reason enough for a policy like this.  I would guess that the same districts that had these policies regularly promoted male teachers into administrative positions in the middle of school years.  If continuity was really such a concern, there would be a policy against that too, wouldn&#8217;t there?</p>
<p>Besides, if you do a cursory survey of your acquaintances who are teachers or who are the kids of teachers, you will find a statistically significant percentage were May/June/July babies, indicating that female teachers already do what they can not to interrupt instruction with reproduction.</p>
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		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-41865</link>
		<dc:creator>Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-41865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cool, Justin. Thanks for looking that up. Nice to know that I was not necessarily misremembering that information, since the first child of my &quot;source&quot; was born within a month of Mrs. LaFleur&#039;s and within two months of Mrs. Nelson&#039;s (the respondents in Cleveland Board of Education v. LaFleur).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool, Justin. Thanks for looking that up. Nice to know that I was not necessarily misremembering that information, since the first child of my &#8220;source&#8221; was born within a month of Mrs. LaFleur&#8217;s and within two months of Mrs. Nelson&#8217;s (the respondents in Cleveland Board of Education v. LaFleur).</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-41855</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-41855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then again, maybe some school district in Utah in the early 1970s did have a policy requiring complete termination of employment.  Here is one example of such a policy in &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.bucknell.edu/x10356.xml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pennsylvania&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then again, maybe some school district in Utah in the early 1970s did have a policy requiring complete termination of employment.  Here is one example of such a policy in <a href="https://www.bucknell.edu/x10356.xml" rel="nofollow">Pennsylvania</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-41852</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-41852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[About BYU in the 70s--I know one woman quite well who was employed as a secretary in the business school who was not fired when she became pregnant.  

She did quit on 17 June 1977, five days before our oldest child was born.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About BYU in the 70s&#8211;I know one woman quite well who was employed as a secretary in the business school who was not fired when she became pregnant.  </p>
<p>She did quit on 17 June 1977, five days before our oldest child was born.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-41851</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-41851</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Church used to have a rule against the employment of married women, regardless of pregnancy -- I don&#039;t have any idea whether that extended as far as BYU or not. And I know the David O. McKay diary has more explicit references than this one, but it&#039;s all I can dredge up on the spur of the moment:

&lt;blockquote&gt;15 June 1962: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Among many items considered was a letter from the General Superintendency of the Sunday School relating to retaining six young women in the employ of Sunday School board since they have been married.

I said that the policy restricting the employment of married women has not been followed as it should be.  I reviewed practices which involve the office of the First Presidency as well as other departments; I referred also to special employment problems arising in the Genealogical Society.  I stated that the rule is honored more in the breech than in the observance, and mentioned the change of practice over the practices of many years ago.  

The advisability of revising the regulation was carefully considered and it was decided that women will be hired and retained after marriage if they are capable and do their work well, but that it will be expected that they will not deliberately postpone responsibilities of parenthood.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In other words, kew, although I don&#039;t know for certain whether the rule extended as far as BYU, I wouldn&#039;t be at all surprised to find out that your professor&#039;s claim and your memories of that claim are accurate. (To be clear, I can&#039;t definitely say that it is so, but I wouldn&#039;t be surprised to find out that it is so.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Church used to have a rule against the employment of married women, regardless of pregnancy &#8212; I don&#8217;t have any idea whether that extended as far as BYU or not. And I know the David O. McKay diary has more explicit references than this one, but it&#8217;s all I can dredge up on the spur of the moment:</p>
<blockquote><p>15 June 1962: </p>
<blockquote><p>Among many items considered was a letter from the General Superintendency of the Sunday School relating to retaining six young women in the employ of Sunday School board since they have been married.</p>
<p>I said that the policy restricting the employment of married women has not been followed as it should be.  I reviewed practices which involve the office of the First Presidency as well as other departments; I referred also to special employment problems arising in the Genealogical Society.  I stated that the rule is honored more in the breech than in the observance, and mentioned the change of practice over the practices of many years ago.  </p>
<p>The advisability of revising the regulation was carefully considered and it was decided that women will be hired and retained after marriage if they are capable and do their work well, but that it will be expected that they will not deliberately postpone responsibilities of parenthood.</p></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>In other words, kew, although I don&#8217;t know for certain whether the rule extended as far as BYU, I wouldn&#8217;t be at all surprised to find out that your professor&#8217;s claim and your memories of that claim are accurate. (To be clear, I can&#8217;t definitely say that it is so, but I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised to find out that it is so.)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-41850</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-41850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Justin, for the link to the LaFleur Case.

I suspect that the two justifications argued by the school boards in those cases (continuity of instruction and health/physical ability of the expectant mother to continue in her duties) were what motivated most school boards in similar policies.  In those days when culture was not altogether saturated in sex, it seems unlikely that a schoolteacher would have been forced out (either on leave or permanently) for the reason suggested by ESO.  Especially in grade schools.  Well might we ask of the children of those days:  What did you know?  And when did you know it?  

Speaking for the only person I can, the answers are &quot;Not much&quot; and &quot;Not in grade school.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Justin, for the link to the LaFleur Case.</p>
<p>I suspect that the two justifications argued by the school boards in those cases (continuity of instruction and health/physical ability of the expectant mother to continue in her duties) were what motivated most school boards in similar policies.  In those days when culture was not altogether saturated in sex, it seems unlikely that a schoolteacher would have been forced out (either on leave or permanently) for the reason suggested by ESO.  Especially in grade schools.  Well might we ask of the children of those days:  What did you know?  And when did you know it?  </p>
<p>Speaking for the only person I can, the answers are &#8220;Not much&#8221; and &#8220;Not in grade school.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-41848</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-41848</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who&#039;s going to say it first? ... Hurray for Justin!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who&#8217;s going to say it first? &#8230; Hurray for Justin!</p>
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		<title>By: kew</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2011/01/11/%e2%80%9cwhat-shall-i-do%e2%80%9d-paid-employment-for-mormon-girls-1927-part-2-the-teacher/comment-page-1/#comment-41844</link>
		<dc:creator>kew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=10351#comment-41844</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I was at BYU a few years ago, one of my professors said that BYU fired married women for getting pregnant into the 1970&#039;s. I fully acknowledge that my heresay is not a reliable source.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was at BYU a few years ago, one of my professors said that BYU fired married women for getting pregnant into the 1970&#8242;s. I fully acknowledge that my heresay is not a reliable source.</p>
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