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	<title>Comments on: Male Chastity</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-259323</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 04:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-259323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know it has been a couple of years, but in case someone else stumbled across this later, I will add my two cents. Well, really they belong to my husband, since he was the main contributor to the conversation. 

My husband is in his late 30s and has not yet been a member for a year. He had LDS friends in high school, but hadn&#039;t had any real contact with the church, after graduation, until my kids told him that he liked me enough to ask their permission to marry me, he should probably come to church a few times so he would get lost. 

He just finished the ten week course that the teach for men who are older than 21, and not yet Elder&#039;s. (Under 21 go to missionary prep.) The class was taught during Elder&#039;s Quorum by the Elder&#039;s Quorum President and a member of the Bishopbric. The lessons were pulled from the missionary prep handbook, the last official version of the manual that had all of the ordinances of the priesthood laid out, and a number of conference talks. 

Everyone in the class was also taking the Temple Prep class during the second hour.  To start the two classes you had to have spent a total of 6 months in Gospel Doctrine, and time as an investigator counting as long as you were there most of the time. So most of the people in the class had either been baptized within a few months or had reactivated during that time. (All of the people in his class fell into those categories, but if there had been less than 8, they would have invited other Elders or High Priests to join them.)

The lesson on chastity was pretty focus on what wasn&#039;t acceptable, and things that can be done if you are struggling. The two examples he remembers are if porn is a temptation, instead of fantasizing about other women, talk with your wife to find sexual experiences that are good for both partners. (I thought this was much better than humming a hymn.) 

The other instance was if you find the dress of a woman to be distracting or spiritually annoying, and you can&#039;t avoid the contact (like she works with you) to first be upfront with her about being distracted. The Elder&#039;s Quorum President shared an example from the year after he got off his mission and worked with someone who tended to show a lot of skin.  When he talked to her, she was honestly surprised and said she thought that was what men liked. He told her that some men might, but he didn&#039;t. Then he asked her what kind of man she wanted to date or marry. After several discussions she ended up going shopping with his mom for flattering but more appropriate clothing. They then brainstormed other things to try if the direct approach didn&#039;t. 

What I like about the second example is that it assumes the best in both men and women. Men want to respect women, and women want to be respected. Sometimes it really could be a breakdown in communication. I remember I boy that I had a huge crush on in middle school taking me aside and asking me if I knew how tight my shirt was. I said that I thought that was the style (and since I went up a cup size during the first three months of school I honestly did not realize just how tight they had become. (I didn&#039;t have a mirror in my room, and the bathroom mirror ended at my neck.) When I looked at myself in the mirror on my mom&#039;s closet door I was sooooooo embarrassed. I talked my mom into three new t-shirts that night. I will always be glad he like ME enough to let me know that my appearance wasn&#039;t giving off the same signals as my mind and heart. Thanks Corey!

Julia
findingmywaysoftly.blogspot.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it has been a couple of years, but in case someone else stumbled across this later, I will add my two cents. Well, really they belong to my husband, since he was the main contributor to the conversation. </p>
<p>My husband is in his late 30s and has not yet been a member for a year. He had LDS friends in high school, but hadn&#8217;t had any real contact with the church, after graduation, until my kids told him that he liked me enough to ask their permission to marry me, he should probably come to church a few times so he would get lost. </p>
<p>He just finished the ten week course that the teach for men who are older than 21, and not yet Elder&#8217;s. (Under 21 go to missionary prep.) The class was taught during Elder&#8217;s Quorum by the Elder&#8217;s Quorum President and a member of the Bishopbric. The lessons were pulled from the missionary prep handbook, the last official version of the manual that had all of the ordinances of the priesthood laid out, and a number of conference talks. </p>
<p>Everyone in the class was also taking the Temple Prep class during the second hour.  To start the two classes you had to have spent a total of 6 months in Gospel Doctrine, and time as an investigator counting as long as you were there most of the time. So most of the people in the class had either been baptized within a few months or had reactivated during that time. (All of the people in his class fell into those categories, but if there had been less than 8, they would have invited other Elders or High Priests to join them.)</p>
<p>The lesson on chastity was pretty focus on what wasn&#8217;t acceptable, and things that can be done if you are struggling. The two examples he remembers are if porn is a temptation, instead of fantasizing about other women, talk with your wife to find sexual experiences that are good for both partners. (I thought this was much better than humming a hymn.) </p>
<p>The other instance was if you find the dress of a woman to be distracting or spiritually annoying, and you can&#8217;t avoid the contact (like she works with you) to first be upfront with her about being distracted. The Elder&#8217;s Quorum President shared an example from the year after he got off his mission and worked with someone who tended to show a lot of skin.  When he talked to her, she was honestly surprised and said she thought that was what men liked. He told her that some men might, but he didn&#8217;t. Then he asked her what kind of man she wanted to date or marry. After several discussions she ended up going shopping with his mom for flattering but more appropriate clothing. They then brainstormed other things to try if the direct approach didn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>What I like about the second example is that it assumes the best in both men and women. Men want to respect women, and women want to be respected. Sometimes it really could be a breakdown in communication. I remember I boy that I had a huge crush on in middle school taking me aside and asking me if I knew how tight my shirt was. I said that I thought that was the style (and since I went up a cup size during the first three months of school I honestly did not realize just how tight they had become. (I didn&#8217;t have a mirror in my room, and the bathroom mirror ended at my neck.) When I looked at myself in the mirror on my mom&#8217;s closet door I was sooooooo embarrassed. I talked my mom into three new t-shirts that night. I will always be glad he like ME enough to let me know that my appearance wasn&#8217;t giving off the same signals as my mind and heart. Thanks Corey!</p>
<p>Julia<br />
findingmywaysoftly.blogspot.com</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-25088</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 23:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-25088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t notice how many chastity lessons there were in Sunday School or Relief Society until I seemed to be teaching them every second or third week.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t notice how many chastity lessons there were in Sunday School or Relief Society until I seemed to be teaching them every second or third week.</p>
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		<title>By: floridagirl</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-25086</link>
		<dc:creator>floridagirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 23:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-25086</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been in primary for so long I didn&#039;t realize there were so many chastity lessons outside of Young Womens. Hmmm. This was interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been in primary for so long I didn&#8217;t realize there were so many chastity lessons outside of Young Womens. Hmmm. This was interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-25046</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 02:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-25046</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pure food means staying away from chocolates, strawberries, and oysters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pure food means staying away from chocolates, strawberries, and oysters.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-25021</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 02:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-25021</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark, the phrase &quot;clean living&quot; that was used so heavily in the mid-20th century was an umbrella term for chastity, Word of Wisdom (including the food aspects), speech, dress, and deportment in general. That&#039;s very likely where the &quot;pure food&quot; remark comes in -- when one aspect of clean living is under discussion, all the others are &quot;incorporated therein and made a part thereof by reference.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, the phrase &#8220;clean living&#8221; that was used so heavily in the mid-20th century was an umbrella term for chastity, Word of Wisdom (including the food aspects), speech, dress, and deportment in general. That&#8217;s very likely where the &#8220;pure food&#8221; remark comes in &#8212; when one aspect of clean living is under discussion, all the others are &#8220;incorporated therein and made a part thereof by reference.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-25020</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-25020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder what in the world is meant by pure food?  Did our people used to think that being unchaste made you acquire a taste for certain kinds of food?  If so, what kinds?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what in the world is meant by pure food?  Did our people used to think that being unchaste made you acquire a taste for certain kinds of food?  If so, what kinds?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-25019</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-25019</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#12-14 -- Ardis, I agree that it&#039;s a positive admonition -- if there is anything...of good report, we seek after those things.  

Jacob, I remember being taught by my mission president who was taught by Elder Sill back in the day of a poster he (Elder Sill) had seen during the war (WWI?).  The unsavory image came to him in the temple, uninvited.  The message to us missionaries was once the image was in your brain, you could not expunge it, so better to avoid those images.

I think that&#039;s the point of the lesson here, as well (as you say): don&#039;t go looking for temptation.  Do all you can to avoid it in your speech, your companions, your environment.  Not too different from today&#039;s counsel to youth and adults alike to avoid unsavory influences in entertainments and speech.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12-14 &#8212; Ardis, I agree that it&#8217;s a positive admonition &#8212; if there is anything&#8230;of good report, we seek after those things.  </p>
<p>Jacob, I remember being taught by my mission president who was taught by Elder Sill back in the day of a poster he (Elder Sill) had seen during the war (WWI?).  The unsavory image came to him in the temple, uninvited.  The message to us missionaries was once the image was in your brain, you could not expunge it, so better to avoid those images.</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s the point of the lesson here, as well (as you say): don&#8217;t go looking for temptation.  Do all you can to avoid it in your speech, your companions, your environment.  Not too different from today&#8217;s counsel to youth and adults alike to avoid unsavory influences in entertainments and speech.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-25018</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-25018</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jacob, I read all of those points as being primarily positive -- choosing the good things to see, hear, taste, come in contact with *before* a temptation is encountered, so that there&#039;s nothing to repent of. I probably read it that way in light of B., which is so very upbeat in its consideration of chastity as something we manifest by behavior and thought, rather than the absence of something we avoid. 

Anyway, I found that aspect so encouraging and positive that it overrode any negative interpretation from me, although I can see from your response how and why you found it to be otherwise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob, I read all of those points as being primarily positive &#8212; choosing the good things to see, hear, taste, come in contact with *before* a temptation is encountered, so that there&#8217;s nothing to repent of. I probably read it that way in light of B., which is so very upbeat in its consideration of chastity as something we manifest by behavior and thought, rather than the absence of something we avoid. </p>
<p>Anyway, I found that aspect so encouraging and positive that it overrode any negative interpretation from me, although I can see from your response how and why you found it to be otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-25017</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-25017</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ai.  It’s all well and good to say we should NOT go out seeking temptation...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ai.  It’s all well and good to say we should NOT go out seeking temptation&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/08/11/male-chastity/comment-page-1/#comment-25016</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7755#comment-25016</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis, 

Right about the mind as well as the body, I agree.  Look at this sentence though:

&lt;blockquote&gt;From this again we learn how very important it is on the one hand to &lt;em&gt;hear &lt;/em&gt;chaste, polite language, &lt;em&gt;see &lt;/em&gt;only choicest actions, writings, and associations; and to be kept, on the other hand, from &lt;em&gt;tasting&lt;/em&gt;, or &lt;em&gt;coming in contact &lt;/em&gt;with any object that is calculated to stain and pollute the impressionable mind, with the manifestations of grossness.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hear, see, taste, come into contact with.  The paragraph suggests that we control our mind by controlling our environment to make sure that nothing tempting is introduced to our mind.  Why, because once introduced we&#039;ll inevitably long for the evil thing being presented to our senses:

&lt;blockquote&gt;When the mind once conceives vulgar thoughts, the next step is a natural longing to enjoy the thing conceived, which is desire.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In my mind, the place to emphasize in the process is our reaction to a temptation once presented.  We control our thoughts despite their being exposed to temptation.  It&#039;s all well and good to say we should go out seeking temptation, but A. seems to go far beyond that to suggest that being sheltered from exposure to temptation is the primary way to remain chaste.  As it says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;That which is impressed upon [the youthful mind] by the five senses remains forever.

...Under such conditions there is no forgetting, or ridding the mind of impressions once so made upon it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The emphasis is all on the exposure to temptation and its &lt;em&gt;permanent&lt;/em&gt; impact on the person.  I personally don&#039;t agree with the view and I certainly don&#039;t think it a great lead in to a lesson on the power and efficacy of repentance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis, </p>
<p>Right about the mind as well as the body, I agree.  Look at this sentence though:</p>
<blockquote><p>From this again we learn how very important it is on the one hand to <em>hear </em>chaste, polite language, <em>see </em>only choicest actions, writings, and associations; and to be kept, on the other hand, from <em>tasting</em>, or <em>coming in contact </em>with any object that is calculated to stain and pollute the impressionable mind, with the manifestations of grossness.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hear, see, taste, come into contact with.  The paragraph suggests that we control our mind by controlling our environment to make sure that nothing tempting is introduced to our mind.  Why, because once introduced we&#8217;ll inevitably long for the evil thing being presented to our senses:</p>
<blockquote><p>When the mind once conceives vulgar thoughts, the next step is a natural longing to enjoy the thing conceived, which is desire.</p></blockquote>
<p>In my mind, the place to emphasize in the process is our reaction to a temptation once presented.  We control our thoughts despite their being exposed to temptation.  It&#8217;s all well and good to say we should go out seeking temptation, but A. seems to go far beyond that to suggest that being sheltered from exposure to temptation is the primary way to remain chaste.  As it says:</p>
<blockquote><p>That which is impressed upon [the youthful mind] by the five senses remains forever.</p>
<p>&#8230;Under such conditions there is no forgetting, or ridding the mind of impressions once so made upon it.</p></blockquote>
<p>The emphasis is all on the exposure to temptation and its <em>permanent</em> impact on the person.  I personally don&#8217;t agree with the view and I certainly don&#8217;t think it a great lead in to a lesson on the power and efficacy of repentance.</p>
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