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	<title>Comments on: Guest Post: The Big Table: An Experiment in Communal Living</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: gretchen</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23786</link>
		<dc:creator>gretchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[How timely to talk of Lot Smith when this is the family reunion weekend and not all would fit around one table.  
You always find great information, I first came to this site when the Utah war was posted.
Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How timely to talk of Lot Smith when this is the family reunion weekend and not all would fit around one table.<br />
You always find great information, I first came to this site when the Utah war was posted.<br />
Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: anita</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23753</link>
		<dc:creator>anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jun 2010 01:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[@amy #2--yes, lorenzo was lucky in the crossing accident.  he did lose many possessions including a journal, known to the family biographers as his &quot;drowned journal.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@amy #2&#8211;yes, lorenzo was lucky in the crossing accident.  he did lose many possessions including a journal, known to the family biographers as his &#8220;drowned journal.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Paradox</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23746</link>
		<dc:creator>Paradox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 23:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[When I was a freshman at BYU, and we had a dining hall called the Cannon Center where we would eat every day. My ward was extremely close, and we were always eating together in large groups. This often involved moving tables together to fit everyone, and we were always trying to find the perfect arrangement that would fit everyone and make everyone feel included--i.e. the person on the end was never left out of the conversation. And because it&#039;s set up as a buffet style, serving everyone wasn&#039;t difficult because they did it themselves.

In my experience, that&#039;s when the Big Table concept really takes hold and isn&#039;t a burden--when that&#039;s genuinely what everyone wants. When you&#039;re compelled to do it, it simply doesn&#039;t work because your heart isn&#039;t in it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a freshman at BYU, and we had a dining hall called the Cannon Center where we would eat every day. My ward was extremely close, and we were always eating together in large groups. This often involved moving tables together to fit everyone, and we were always trying to find the perfect arrangement that would fit everyone and make everyone feel included&#8211;i.e. the person on the end was never left out of the conversation. And because it&#8217;s set up as a buffet style, serving everyone wasn&#8217;t difficult because they did it themselves.</p>
<p>In my experience, that&#8217;s when the Big Table concept really takes hold and isn&#8217;t a burden&#8211;when that&#8217;s genuinely what everyone wants. When you&#8217;re compelled to do it, it simply doesn&#8217;t work because your heart isn&#8217;t in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Moniker Challenged</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23743</link>
		<dc:creator>Moniker Challenged</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 22:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7142#comment-23743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Two vehement thumbs down for the communal table.  It&#039;s a real blessing not to have to end a long day with lukewarm cream-of-whatsit casserole and someone else&#039;s kid kicking you under the table to divert attention while flinging peas under your shoes.

PS- Welcome back, Ardis.  Hope everything&#039;s ok.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two vehement thumbs down for the communal table.  It&#8217;s a real blessing not to have to end a long day with lukewarm cream-of-whatsit casserole and someone else&#8217;s kid kicking you under the table to divert attention while flinging peas under your shoes.</p>
<p>PS- Welcome back, Ardis.  Hope everything&#8217;s ok.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23742</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 21:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7142#comment-23742</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s ironic that the only time I&#039;ve ever heard a contemporary talk positively about plural marriage is in imagining how the kitchen and eating duties could be shared.  It sounds as if, in practice, the sharing of &quot;the long table&quot; wasn&#039;t so great, after all.  

Funny, to those in a United Order community, the hymn &quot;Again We Meet Around the Board&quot; must have had a pejorative double meaning!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s ironic that the only time I&#8217;ve ever heard a contemporary talk positively about plural marriage is in imagining how the kitchen and eating duties could be shared.  It sounds as if, in practice, the sharing of &#8220;the long table&#8221; wasn&#8217;t so great, after all.  </p>
<p>Funny, to those in a United Order community, the hymn &#8220;Again We Meet Around the Board&#8221; must have had a pejorative double meaning!</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23741</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7142#comment-23741</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my research on the 1873 expedition to the Little Colorado that turned back, not many of the journals talked about the United Order, probably because they never got to the point that it was possible to practice.  However, leader Horton D. Haight, Jacob Miller, and others who all left from Farmington at the same time, had pledged to &quot;have all in common&quot;, so I suspect that the long table was at least envisioned.  For the 1873 colonists, the closest they got to the long table was sharing their flour with the horses, as there was no other feed after they had fed their horses the seed grain.

Amy, I have some pretty amazing pictures of the climb up out of Lee&#039;s Ferry over Lee&#039;s Backbone, which was no picnic either.  Wilford Woodruff described it in his journal some years later as the most difficult ascent and descent he had ever encountered.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my research on the 1873 expedition to the Little Colorado that turned back, not many of the journals talked about the United Order, probably because they never got to the point that it was possible to practice.  However, leader Horton D. Haight, Jacob Miller, and others who all left from Farmington at the same time, had pledged to &#8220;have all in common&#8221;, so I suspect that the long table was at least envisioned.  For the 1873 colonists, the closest they got to the long table was sharing their flour with the horses, as there was no other feed after they had fed their horses the seed grain.</p>
<p>Amy, I have some pretty amazing pictures of the climb up out of Lee&#8217;s Ferry over Lee&#8217;s Backbone, which was no picnic either.  Wilford Woodruff described it in his journal some years later as the most difficult ascent and descent he had ever encountered.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23736</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7142#comment-23736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(I&#039;m shifting between two laptops for the time being, which makes it hard for me to find quotations on one machine to blog with on another machine.)

The Kingston United Order began with individual family kitchens and dining rooms, but as soon as they could finish a large enough building they began eating at a big table. Within a few months, though, the kinds of troubles that Amy cites for Sunset had appeared at Kingston. Unwilling to completely abolish the big table, they still ate as a community but at five smaller tables, each presided over by a community leader, to preserve more of a family feeling. &quot;There is no misstake but it is the better way at least experience has taught that lesson.&quot;

Even so, the problems of status and inequality and hurt feelings and cold suppers persisted. One particular problem was that they had American, English, Swiss, and Danish members who were used to different methods of preparing food and who could not learn to enjoy other methods of cooking. They tried to work them out -- &quot;The principles of union were held up in favor of the big table&quot; -- but eventually they decided that it would work best for each family to prepare its own meals and eat separately from the community. &quot;There was an order meeting held this evening wherein the people voted to discontinue the big table for the present ... The milk was to be divided according to numbers &amp; the Hall dishes were to be distributed according to necessity.&quot;

An English journalist who visited the Order and interviewed its residents and and was generally quite sympathetic (although you might doubt that from the following quotation) reported, &quot;When they ate at a common table, the living, it is said, was even more frugal than it is now, and there was hardly a piece of crockery among them all, the &#039;family&#039; eating and drinking out of tin vessels. The women, either from mismanagement among themselves, or want of order among the men, were unable to bear the burden of ceaseless cooking, and the common table was thereupon abandoned by a unanimous vote.&quot;

I think it quite interesting to note that memoirs written late in life by people who were children during the Kingston United Order days remember the big table very fondly, much more fondly, evidently, than their elders who had tried to make it work. Somewhere in my files, too, I have memoirs of a couple of Order members who talk about the prayers given before meals, and how they dreaded when it was the turn of one man who droned on and on and on, guaranteeing that the food would be cold. Another hazard of a Mormon big table!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I&#8217;m shifting between two laptops for the time being, which makes it hard for me to find quotations on one machine to blog with on another machine.)</p>
<p>The Kingston United Order began with individual family kitchens and dining rooms, but as soon as they could finish a large enough building they began eating at a big table. Within a few months, though, the kinds of troubles that Amy cites for Sunset had appeared at Kingston. Unwilling to completely abolish the big table, they still ate as a community but at five smaller tables, each presided over by a community leader, to preserve more of a family feeling. &#8220;There is no misstake but it is the better way at least experience has taught that lesson.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even so, the problems of status and inequality and hurt feelings and cold suppers persisted. One particular problem was that they had American, English, Swiss, and Danish members who were used to different methods of preparing food and who could not learn to enjoy other methods of cooking. They tried to work them out &#8212; &#8220;The principles of union were held up in favor of the big table&#8221; &#8212; but eventually they decided that it would work best for each family to prepare its own meals and eat separately from the community. &#8220;There was an order meeting held this evening wherein the people voted to discontinue the big table for the present &#8230; The milk was to be divided according to numbers &#038; the Hall dishes were to be distributed according to necessity.&#8221;</p>
<p>An English journalist who visited the Order and interviewed its residents and and was generally quite sympathetic (although you might doubt that from the following quotation) reported, &#8220;When they ate at a common table, the living, it is said, was even more frugal than it is now, and there was hardly a piece of crockery among them all, the &#8216;family&#8217; eating and drinking out of tin vessels. The women, either from mismanagement among themselves, or want of order among the men, were unable to bear the burden of ceaseless cooking, and the common table was thereupon abandoned by a unanimous vote.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it quite interesting to note that memoirs written late in life by people who were children during the Kingston United Order days remember the big table very fondly, much more fondly, evidently, than their elders who had tried to make it work. Somewhere in my files, too, I have memoirs of a couple of Order members who talk about the prayers given before meals, and how they dreaded when it was the turn of one man who droned on and on and on, guaranteeing that the food would be cold. Another hazard of a Mormon big table!</p>
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		<title>By: Amy T</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23717</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7142#comment-23717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Woodruff? Cool. Charles Peterson notes that in addition to the original four communities, United Order communities were attempted in Taylor, Woodruff, and Snowflake, but they all ended about the time the one in Obed did. 

One of the most difficult parts of the journey for the early settlers was the crossing of the Colorado River at Lee&#039;s Ferry. When Daniel Wells traveled to Arizona in 1876, his group also included Lorenzo Hatch and Lorenzo Roundy. Roundy was drowned during the crossing and Hatch was swept down into the rapids, clinging to the top of a carriage, but his life was saved. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woodruff? Cool. Charles Peterson notes that in addition to the original four communities, United Order communities were attempted in Taylor, Woodruff, and Snowflake, but they all ended about the time the one in Obed did. </p>
<p>One of the most difficult parts of the journey for the early settlers was the crossing of the Colorado River at Lee&#8217;s Ferry. When Daniel Wells traveled to Arizona in 1876, his group also included Lorenzo Hatch and Lorenzo Roundy. Roundy was drowned during the crossing and Hatch was swept down into the rapids, clinging to the top of a carriage, but his life was saved. </p>
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		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23719</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Stapley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=7142#comment-23719</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I corresponded with Charles Peterson earlier this year - he has an extraordinary memory.  And the Savage family journals are all extraordinarily rich.

This sort of reminds me of the stories about how President Kimball would bring a box of chocolates to meetings with the FP and 12, and how they got to choose by seniority.  The newest members always got the crappy chocolates.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I corresponded with Charles Peterson earlier this year &#8211; he has an extraordinary memory.  And the Savage family journals are all extraordinarily rich.</p>
<p>This sort of reminds me of the stories about how President Kimball would bring a box of chocolates to meetings with the FP and 12, and how they got to choose by seniority.  The newest members always got the crappy chocolates.</p>
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		<title>By: anita</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/06/25/guest-post-the-big-table-an-experiment-in-communal-living/comment-page-1/#comment-23716</link>
		<dc:creator>anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Interesting!  My ancestor Lorenzo Hill Hatch was a counselor to Lot Smith at this time in Woodruff AZ, and his history records that they started with 8 families living the United Order in Woodruff, and by 1878 two years later, they were down to 3 families.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting!  My ancestor Lorenzo Hill Hatch was a counselor to Lot Smith at this time in Woodruff AZ, and his history records that they started with 8 families living the United Order in Woodruff, and by 1878 two years later, they were down to 3 families.</p>
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