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	<title>Comments on: You Have Been Listening to the Sunday Evening Broadcast: Three Hymns by Charles W. Penrose</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Phoebe</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22843</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoebe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 20:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Home run, Ardis.  Thank you so much for this.  I didn&#039;t know about these broadcasts.  I almost missed this post--I&#039;ve been in the midwest visiting family and haven&#039;t kept up with Keepa.

I hope there is an actual broadcast of the voice of Charles Penrose himself.  I&#039;m told there is a old film that includes him and several of the First Presidency and apostles, but I forget to ask about it when I&#039;m at the church archives.

Maurine, that is a wonderful story.  I&#039;d love to read Rosetta&#039;s entire history.  I regret not interviewing my older relatives while they were still alive.  One small correction--Lucetta&#039;s family name was Stratford.  They were his first converts in Maldon.  They met in March 1851 and by 1854 were engaged, but had to wait at least a year before the mission president gave Charles permission to marry.   George Stratford did come to the US with the family, but he made it only as far as Kanesville where he died of typhoid fever.

As far as seeing Zion as images in his mind&#039;s eye, I wonder if the early missionaries had some kind of sketches of Utah to show converts.  By the time Penrose wrote &quot;O Ye Mountains High&quot; he&#039;d been a member for five years and worked with many American missionaries and elders.  My guess is that he would have pumped them for information and descriptions. 

I&#039;m one of the many great-grandchildren of Charles and Lucetta.  I&#039;ve been working on the stories of his hymns to put on my family history website, but haven&#039;t quite finished.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Home run, Ardis.  Thank you so much for this.  I didn&#8217;t know about these broadcasts.  I almost missed this post&#8211;I&#8217;ve been in the midwest visiting family and haven&#8217;t kept up with Keepa.</p>
<p>I hope there is an actual broadcast of the voice of Charles Penrose himself.  I&#8217;m told there is a old film that includes him and several of the First Presidency and apostles, but I forget to ask about it when I&#8217;m at the church archives.</p>
<p>Maurine, that is a wonderful story.  I&#8217;d love to read Rosetta&#8217;s entire history.  I regret not interviewing my older relatives while they were still alive.  One small correction&#8211;Lucetta&#8217;s family name was Stratford.  They were his first converts in Maldon.  They met in March 1851 and by 1854 were engaged, but had to wait at least a year before the mission president gave Charles permission to marry.   George Stratford did come to the US with the family, but he made it only as far as Kanesville where he died of typhoid fever.</p>
<p>As far as seeing Zion as images in his mind&#8217;s eye, I wonder if the early missionaries had some kind of sketches of Utah to show converts.  By the time Penrose wrote &#8220;O Ye Mountains High&#8221; he&#8217;d been a member for five years and worked with many American missionaries and elders.  My guess is that he would have pumped them for information and descriptions. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m one of the many great-grandchildren of Charles and Lucetta.  I&#8217;ve been working on the stories of his hymns to put on my family history website, but haven&#8217;t quite finished.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22681</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 16:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m coming to this a little late.  I enjoyed the post and then everyone&#039;s comments, especially those from Maurine.  

A couple of thoughts:

I was impressed that, after being falsely accused, Brother Penrose chose to funnel his pain and struggle into something constructive.  I was thinking that my own source of consolation has never been writing devotional poetry, but is usually a big bag of potato chips.  [sigh]

Also, I wasn&#039;t aware that Penrose had never been to Salt Lake City when he wrote &quot;O Ye Mountains High.&quot;  Did I read that right?  If so, it&#039;s caused me to rethink some of my assumptions about that hymn.  

For example, the allusions to &quot;Zion&quot; in that poem have long been interpreted by us moderns as merely allegorical (viz., &quot;Zion is the pure in heart&quot;), but I&#039;ve always tended to view that poem as a sort of &quot;geographical hagiography,&quot; and, of course, specifically referring to pre-statehood Utah.  

But if Penrose was actually just dreaming up images in his mind&#039;s eye (even if inspired by a real place), I&#039;m wondering if &quot;O Ye Mountains High&quot; really shouldn&#039;t be viewed as rhetorical poetry -- a longing for a Zion and not necessarily a paean to an actual place.  Hmm . . .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m coming to this a little late.  I enjoyed the post and then everyone&#8217;s comments, especially those from Maurine.  </p>
<p>A couple of thoughts:</p>
<p>I was impressed that, after being falsely accused, Brother Penrose chose to funnel his pain and struggle into something constructive.  I was thinking that my own source of consolation has never been writing devotional poetry, but is usually a big bag of potato chips.  [sigh]</p>
<p>Also, I wasn&#8217;t aware that Penrose had never been to Salt Lake City when he wrote &#8220;O Ye Mountains High.&#8221;  Did I read that right?  If so, it&#8217;s caused me to rethink some of my assumptions about that hymn.  </p>
<p>For example, the allusions to &#8220;Zion&#8221; in that poem have long been interpreted by us moderns as merely allegorical (viz., &#8220;Zion is the pure in heart&#8221;), but I&#8217;ve always tended to view that poem as a sort of &#8220;geographical hagiography,&#8221; and, of course, specifically referring to pre-statehood Utah.  </p>
<p>But if Penrose was actually just dreaming up images in his mind&#8217;s eye (even if inspired by a real place), I&#8217;m wondering if &#8220;O Ye Mountains High&#8221; really shouldn&#8217;t be viewed as rhetorical poetry &#8212; a longing for a Zion and not necessarily a paean to an actual place.  Hmm . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22680</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 15:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very nice. I&#039;m glad you picked this one to post first.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice. I&#8217;m glad you picked this one to post first.</p>
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		<title>By: Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22679</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 15:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the background on these hymns.  I especially appreciated the story behind &quot;School Thy Feelings.&quot;  It seems that in this church, there&#039;s always been adequate opportunities for practicing the skills of sainthood.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the background on these hymns.  I especially appreciated the story behind &#8220;School Thy Feelings.&#8221;  It seems that in this church, there&#8217;s always been adequate opportunities for practicing the skills of sainthood.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22643</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 00:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis, I really enjoyed this post, as well as Maurine and kevinf&#039;s comments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis, I really enjoyed this post, as well as Maurine and kevinf&#8217;s comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22642</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 23:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, Eric, Maurine, and kevinf -- a nice bit of a takeaway lesson from Eric, and some wonderful personal additions by Maurine and kevinf. I wasn&#039;t familiar with &quot;Blow Gently,&quot; although the other two are of course familiar, and I love to know the story behind their writing.

Radio scripts for what was probably an hour-long program are a little long for blog posts. I think, though, that I will post others from time to time just so they are available in the archive. Sometime they will fill just the right need by someone who googles.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Eric, Maurine, and kevinf &#8212; a nice bit of a takeaway lesson from Eric, and some wonderful personal additions by Maurine and kevinf. I wasn&#8217;t familiar with &#8220;Blow Gently,&#8221; although the other two are of course familiar, and I love to know the story behind their writing.</p>
<p>Radio scripts for what was probably an hour-long program are a little long for blog posts. I think, though, that I will post others from time to time just so they are available in the archive. Sometime they will fill just the right need by someone who googles.</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22639</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 22:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ummm, should be &quot;when you SAW that pillow of clouds&quot;....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ummm, should be &#8220;when you SAW that pillow of clouds&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22638</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 22:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22638</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My wife and I lived in Kaysville, just a couple of miles north of Farmington, and had more than one experience with those east winds.  You could tell they were coming when you that pillow of clouds just laying folded over the tops of the mountains to the east.  It was something about a big low pressure settling in over southwestern Wyoming, and all that cold, dense are getting sucked through the canyons and over the mountain tops right through Davis County.  

We even once had the wind blow open our locked front door while we were at church one Sunday, and came home to about a foot of drifted snow in our entry and part of our living room.  Certainly not as deadly for us as the circumstances described in Maurine&#039;s comment or the JFS story, but I know what they are describing.  Interesting to know the genesis of that song, and a little more about Bro. Penrose.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife and I lived in Kaysville, just a couple of miles north of Farmington, and had more than one experience with those east winds.  You could tell they were coming when you that pillow of clouds just laying folded over the tops of the mountains to the east.  It was something about a big low pressure settling in over southwestern Wyoming, and all that cold, dense are getting sucked through the canyons and over the mountain tops right through Davis County.  </p>
<p>We even once had the wind blow open our locked front door while we were at church one Sunday, and came home to about a foot of drifted snow in our entry and part of our living room.  Certainly not as deadly for us as the circumstances described in Maurine&#8217;s comment or the JFS story, but I know what they are describing.  Interesting to know the genesis of that song, and a little more about Bro. Penrose.</p>
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		<title>By: Maurine</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22636</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 21:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The east winds in Davis County have historically been terrible. In February 1864, John Rigby was living in Farmington when his fifteen-month-old son became very sick. The nearest medicine was in Salt Lake City. He loaded a wagon with some aspen logs to sell to a furniture dealer so he could get money for the medicine. At Beck&#039;s Hot Springs on the way home, he ran into the east wind which had drifted in the road, so he tried to get home by going on the mountain road, which went over the mountain, coming down into Bountiful.  He made it as far as the John Corbridge home in Bountiful, where he stayed the night. The next morning he found that his team was frozen to death, with one horse still standing. When he finally got to the Centerville Coop, a friend told him that his wife and baby had been frozen while trying to get to a neighbor&#039;s house when her roof blew off, and had been blown into a fence. Rigby lost 200 head of sheep, six horses, ten cows, and four pigs. All he had left was a calf, a colt, and a black dog.

I can&#039;t find the reference to this right at the moment, but at one time the winds were so bad that a church leader rebuked the winds, which died down for awhile.

Just after I was married, we were renting a little renovated granary in Centerville during one of the east winds. Two of our windows blew out. Even today, it is quite often during a fierce east wind for all of the semi trucks to pull off the freeway to wait the wind out, or risk being blown over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The east winds in Davis County have historically been terrible. In February 1864, John Rigby was living in Farmington when his fifteen-month-old son became very sick. The nearest medicine was in Salt Lake City. He loaded a wagon with some aspen logs to sell to a furniture dealer so he could get money for the medicine. At Beck&#8217;s Hot Springs on the way home, he ran into the east wind which had drifted in the road, so he tried to get home by going on the mountain road, which went over the mountain, coming down into Bountiful.  He made it as far as the John Corbridge home in Bountiful, where he stayed the night. The next morning he found that his team was frozen to death, with one horse still standing. When he finally got to the Centerville Coop, a friend told him that his wife and baby had been frozen while trying to get to a neighbor&#8217;s house when her roof blew off, and had been blown into a fence. Rigby lost 200 head of sheep, six horses, ten cows, and four pigs. All he had left was a calf, a colt, and a black dog.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t find the reference to this right at the moment, but at one time the winds were so bad that a church leader rebuked the winds, which died down for awhile.</p>
<p>Just after I was married, we were renting a little renovated granary in Centerville during one of the east winds. Two of our windows blew out. Even today, it is quite often during a fierce east wind for all of the semi trucks to pull off the freeway to wait the wind out, or risk being blown over.</p>
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		<title>By: Maurine</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/05/19/you-have-been-listening-to-the-sunday-evening-broadcast-three-hymns-by-charles-w-penrose/comment-page-1/#comment-22635</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 21:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=6053#comment-22635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In 1851, Charles Penrose baptized George and Eliza Barwell Stratton in Maldon, Essex, England. Eliza had a dressmaking shop and had several young women apprenticed to her, including my great grandmother, Rosetta Livermore. Because Rosetta was the only one of the &quot;girls&quot; who could read, often the others would do her share of work for awhile as she read to them (this is not necessary for this post, but I love it, so I put it in). Rosetta was converted and was baptized by Charles Penrose in 1856.

Penrose married Lucetta, the oldest daughter of George and Eliza Stratton in 1855 in Maldon. Widow Eliza Stratton, her son Edwin and his family, Charles Penrose and his family, and my great grandfather, who was baptised in Maldon in 1851, also, came to American and crossed the plains in the Homer Duncan Company in 1861.

When my great grandmother, Rosetta, was in her late 80s and early 90s, she lived with my grandparents and my mother, with her sisters. My aunt Dorothy interviewed Rosetta often during those years and wrote notes about all the things Rosetta said. This is what Dorothy wrote, based on those interviews. Granted, this is second hand knowledge gleaned from an older women (who apparently had a very good memory, from other things she said which I have verified).

&quot;At times after his [Penrose] marriage he would visit the girls as they sewed. One day as he came in, he had been composing the song, &lt;em&gt;O Ye Mountains High&lt;/em&gt;. &#039;Girls,&#039; he said, &#039;I&#039;ve got it all except one line. Help me with that.&#039;&quot;

&quot;Another time he had been to Danbury when a brother  had offended him; as he walked the six miles back to Maldon, he composed the song &lt;em&gt;School Thy Feelings, Oh, My Brother&lt;/em&gt;. He entered the Stratford home tired, but he wrote the words down before resting.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1851, Charles Penrose baptized George and Eliza Barwell Stratton in Maldon, Essex, England. Eliza had a dressmaking shop and had several young women apprenticed to her, including my great grandmother, Rosetta Livermore. Because Rosetta was the only one of the &#8220;girls&#8221; who could read, often the others would do her share of work for awhile as she read to them (this is not necessary for this post, but I love it, so I put it in). Rosetta was converted and was baptized by Charles Penrose in 1856.</p>
<p>Penrose married Lucetta, the oldest daughter of George and Eliza Stratton in 1855 in Maldon. Widow Eliza Stratton, her son Edwin and his family, Charles Penrose and his family, and my great grandfather, who was baptised in Maldon in 1851, also, came to American and crossed the plains in the Homer Duncan Company in 1861.</p>
<p>When my great grandmother, Rosetta, was in her late 80s and early 90s, she lived with my grandparents and my mother, with her sisters. My aunt Dorothy interviewed Rosetta often during those years and wrote notes about all the things Rosetta said. This is what Dorothy wrote, based on those interviews. Granted, this is second hand knowledge gleaned from an older women (who apparently had a very good memory, from other things she said which I have verified).</p>
<p>&#8220;At times after his [Penrose] marriage he would visit the girls as they sewed. One day as he came in, he had been composing the song, <em>O Ye Mountains High</em>. &#8216;Girls,&#8217; he said, &#8216;I&#8217;ve got it all except one line. Help me with that.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Another time he had been to Danbury when a brother  had offended him; as he walked the six miles back to Maldon, he composed the song <em>School Thy Feelings, Oh, My Brother</em>. He entered the Stratford home tired, but he wrote the words down before resting.&#8221;</p>
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