Comments on: Oh, WHOSE Mother?

By: Christine

Christine — Wed, 05 May 2010 15:53:44 +0000

As I read it, I totally hear it to the tune of some other hymn, but I’m blanking on the title. wish I could hum it for you all!

By: mmiles

mmiles — Wed, 05 May 2010 04:27:29 +0000

Ardis,
You always do great work.

By: Clark

Clark — Tue, 04 May 2010 21:24:13 +0000

Intriguing. When I started reading, I was sure Ardis was going to say this was a early 1990′s era poem from Carol Lynn Pearson, or someone else from that uproar. I was shocked when she claimed 1919, but I agree that it’s not likely the original date, as L.H. Jones was only 12 or 13 at the time, and he’d have to be a theological and poetic savant to come up with this as a deacon.

Knowing a published copy exists in 1892, I would also tend to give full credit for this to W.C. Harrison.

By: Researcher

Researcher — Tue, 04 May 2010 18:40:22 +0000

Kevinf, what do you mean by “Nephite canals”? The Mormon settlers did use the pre-existing canal structure from the Hohokam civilization. You can still see some of them:

http://www.waterhistory.org/histories/hohokam2/

I grew up a few blocks away from the Park of the Canals, a city park with some preserved Indian canals and lovely desert plantings.

I imagine some of the Mormon settlers would have attributed the canals to Nephite civilizations, but I never heard of any specific legends. Then, of course, my family was originally from Eastern Arizona and not Mesa.

I’ll add my vote for guest posts by kevinf on any of those topics.

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Tue, 04 May 2010 17:31:34 +0000

Thanks, kevinf — I think both stories would make wonderful guest posts. Everybody always seems to enjoy the detective work that is part of history, and who wouldn’t like to hear about Nephite canals? (I’ve got one such reference to the belief that the Bonneville shoreline in Juab County was a Nephite dam.)

Am glad you’re all enjoying this post, too, even if it doesn’t reach and ultimate solution. (Actually, I think we almost have to award the laurels to Jane Kartchner Morris, too, after the loyal way Mark B. stood up for his grandfather’s third wife’s older sister?)

By: kevinf

kevinf — Tue, 04 May 2010 17:27:32 +0000

Alison, Ardis willing, I’ll provide the details and forward to her and see if it fits. I’m very interested in the stories of the Nephite canals, which actually don’t have any bearing on my initial research. Apparently, this was a fairly common belief of the Saints in the Mesa area, but I haven’t found a lot more information yet. Could be a great story in its own right. If anybody knows anything more about “Nephite Canals”, let me know. Ardis, my provenance story about the Brigham Young quote will get sent in the next few days.

By: Bruce Crow

Bruce Crow — Tue, 04 May 2010 16:53:46 +0000

I was reading the set up and wondered to myself how you would analyze to text to determine the origin. Of course, as I read further I was rewarded with the rest of your post. It was like “You want more? Well, here it is”. Wonderfully done.

By: Hunter

Hunter — Tue, 04 May 2010 16:48:21 +0000

It was a lot of fun to read through the various variants. What a history detective!

On another point, I have to say that I was intrigued that some thought of producing a companion piece to Eliza Snow’s “O My Father” poem in the first place. I know Snow’s verse is obviously addressed to “Father” but I had never thought of the poem as focusing on a fatherly-figure to the exclusion of Heavenly Mother. To the contrary, now Snow’s poem stands as a remarkable contribution to the official doctrine of female deity. It makes me wonder whether some larger cultural sensibility from the Victorian age was influencing the author(s) of the companion poem.

Still, despite my initial surprise, I’m very pleased we have this “O My Mother” verse in our collective repertory.

By: Alison

Alison — Tue, 04 May 2010 16:29:17 +0000

Can I make a request for kevinf to do a guest post on his research into the BY quote?

By: kevinf

kevinf — Tue, 04 May 2010 16:19:33 +0000

Zebedee Coltrin remembers in 1871 seeing Frederick G. Williams in a daguerreotype from 1835, pen in hand, writing this very same poem, with Jacob Hamblin looking over his shoulder. Or something like that.

All I can say is you continue to amaze with your mad hot researcher skilz. In my research, what appeared to be a pretty straightforward quote by Brigham Young took on a new life of its own, and I spent the better part of a year trying to find the original source, which was not quite what I thought it was. It took some more work just to sort through what was likely accurate after several decades, and what was likely not, which included Nephite canals in Arizona, polygamists on the run to Mexico, and several other interesting stories along the way.

Provenance is a slippery slope, indeed.