Comments on: John Garratt Chambers: An Englishman’s Emigration, 1853

By: kevinf

kevinf — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:12:46 +0000

Great to have an account from someone with literary skills for such a detailed information. The issue with the thugs at the dockside was interesting, nothing I had heard of before.

In regards to the leadership issue, some of my ancestors came in an 1857 handcart company that had some difficulties with their leader, a Scotsman. Most of the company were Danish, spoke little or no English, and the captain no Danish. There were numerous difficulties, including forcing some of the sick to walk behind the wagon they were supposed to be riding in to “strengthen” them, and the captain traveling so far ahead of the handcarts that they often took wrong turns. They were overtaken after a few weeks by a group of returning missionaries, including one Christian Christiansen, who was fluent in Danish, and agreed to replace the despised captain. Christiansen was much loved and appreciated by the Danish members of the company, and the rest of the difficult journey became much easier. Leadership matters.

By: Mark B.

Mark B. — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:35:28 +0000

And Popeye wrote the music to go with Sister Cornaby’s text.

Well, that’s mostly true, sort of.

My great-great grandfather and his family were on a ship that left Liverpool two weeks after the Elvira Owen and in a company that left for Salt Lake City two days after the company John Chambers was in. Since my ancestors were not among the literary sort (to be fair to my great-grandfather, he was just a boy of 8), it’s nice to have this account from a near fellow-traveler!

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:56:51 +0000

And thanks for your pointing out the hymns connected with members of this company. (Every time I read some 19th century condemnation of Mormon converts as “the dregs of society,” I snort.)

Your ancestors must have got wet by the same thunderstorms then, after escaping from the same New Orleans land pirates.

By: Researcher

Researcher — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:28:58 +0000

I note from your link that the Chambers were in the Cyrus Wheelock company crossing the plains. I’m scanning through the list on the Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel site to see any ancestors. I don’t. My ancestors who came to Utah that year came in the Joseph W. Young Company, and if my sources are correct, Joseph W. Young was in charge of the members in John Chamber’s ship, the Elvira Owen.

(I do note in the Cyrus Wheelock company a woman named Hannah Last Cornaby. She wrote the hymn “Who’s On the Lord’s Side?” And Cyrus Wheelock wrote “Ye Elders of Israel.” Rather a literary company.)

Thanks for the interesting post!

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:54:01 +0000

W., yeah, sometimes the least exciting “framework” that is necessary to put an exciting item in context takes the most work. You know it!

By: W. Smith

W. Smith — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:24:35 +0000

Ardis, this is very cool. I know what sometimes goes into the bits you mention after the letter-quotes. The stuff I put up about Jon Grimshaw was tough to come by. Nice.

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:02:38 +0000

A lot of people comment on the Mormon organization because most other people traveling by ship were traveling without any organization larger than their own family, and there were serious problems with disorder and competition. (Overland travel is another matter; non-Mormon overland companies often had agreed-upon rules, even written constitutions, for their travel.)

Off-hand, I don’t recall any particular stories of going contrary to a leader, so I’d have to say they’re aren’t over-represented or loom large in my mind.

There isn’t much better than a first-hand account, is there?

By: Martin

Martin — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:49:00 +0000

I love reading this stuff, Ardis!

Of the accounts of the pioneers I’ve read, it seems like there are a lot of stories about the organization and the necessity of listening to the leader. It seems like there are a lot of stories where the leader said to do X, but brother/sister so-and-so did Y, and such were the consequences. My question is, are there truly a high proportion of such stories, or does it just seem that way because they’ve been selected to illustrate the point? Most of the accounts I’ve read were written after the fact, so they may also be heavily influenced by the follow-the-leader emphasis in Utah. What’s your take, Ardis?