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	<title>Comments on: Mormon Teachings on Race Relations, 1935</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Confutus</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10172</link>
		<dc:creator>Confutus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The first thing I noticed was this lesson is rather ambiguous on the origins of the curses on Cain and and Canaan: Was the original curse given by God, or of human origin? And, supposing it was of divine origin, was the Jewish use of it to disdain relationships all other relationships with the darker-sinned races appropriate, or not?

  The second is that while the teachings of Joseph Smith himself were referenced, no mention is made of the Book of Mormon: The lesson might have been enhanced with quote from Nephi about all being like unto God. 

  The Book of Mormon also has something to say about how a not even a divine curse justifies racism, and the authors omitted it.

  This brings to mind the later comments from Ezra Taft Benson about how we (the church, collectively) had taken the Book of Mormon too lightly. As I recall, Marion G. Romney was hinting at the same kinds of things even earlier. How much further ahead of the curve might Church teachings have been?

  The lesson only lightly touches the condition of blacks in the US, and doesn&#039;t mention the apparent disconnect with African blacks not being able to recieve the priesthood at all.  I wonder if this might be because the writers didn&#039;t think of it (since it wasn&#039;t a major public issue, then) or because this disconnect was already something of a sensitive topic for thoughtful Mormon students of the scriptures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first thing I noticed was this lesson is rather ambiguous on the origins of the curses on Cain and and Canaan: Was the original curse given by God, or of human origin? And, supposing it was of divine origin, was the Jewish use of it to disdain relationships all other relationships with the darker-sinned races appropriate, or not?</p>
<p>  The second is that while the teachings of Joseph Smith himself were referenced, no mention is made of the Book of Mormon: The lesson might have been enhanced with quote from Nephi about all being like unto God. </p>
<p>  The Book of Mormon also has something to say about how a not even a divine curse justifies racism, and the authors omitted it.</p>
<p>  This brings to mind the later comments from Ezra Taft Benson about how we (the church, collectively) had taken the Book of Mormon too lightly. As I recall, Marion G. Romney was hinting at the same kinds of things even earlier. How much further ahead of the curve might Church teachings have been?</p>
<p>  The lesson only lightly touches the condition of blacks in the US, and doesn&#8217;t mention the apparent disconnect with African blacks not being able to recieve the priesthood at all.  I wonder if this might be because the writers didn&#8217;t think of it (since it wasn&#8217;t a major public issue, then) or because this disconnect was already something of a sensitive topic for thoughtful Mormon students of the scriptures.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10170</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you all for your comments and for the even tenor of discussion. Today&#039;s post was something of an experiment, to see whether Keepa could talk about race in a way that isn&#039;t always typical of the bloggernacle. We&#039;ve started with an unexpectedly positive document, and I hope you&#039;ll all hang on to your memory of this when we talk next week about a document that is very much from the &quot;other strain&quot; that DavidH mentions (his comment was caught in the spam filter for quite a while, so you might have missed it, above). I don&#039;t know whether those strains are properly labeled as liberal and conservative, or whether there was a conscious decision by anyone to  steer the church in another direction, or who that &quot;anyone&quot; was if he existed, but of course we all do recognize that our history as a people includes discussions of race that are less rosy than that in today&#039;s post. (Can I have a round of applause for the depth of my understatement, please?)

Thank you again for reading and commenting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you all for your comments and for the even tenor of discussion. Today&#8217;s post was something of an experiment, to see whether Keepa could talk about race in a way that isn&#8217;t always typical of the bloggernacle. We&#8217;ve started with an unexpectedly positive document, and I hope you&#8217;ll all hang on to your memory of this when we talk next week about a document that is very much from the &#8220;other strain&#8221; that DavidH mentions (his comment was caught in the spam filter for quite a while, so you might have missed it, above). I don&#8217;t know whether those strains are properly labeled as liberal and conservative, or whether there was a conscious decision by anyone to  steer the church in another direction, or who that &#8220;anyone&#8221; was if he existed, but of course we all do recognize that our history as a people includes discussions of race that are less rosy than that in today&#8217;s post. (Can I have a round of applause for the depth of my understatement, please?)</p>
<p>Thank you again for reading and commenting.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10168</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10168</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, I meant to block quote that first statement in #14.  Got distracted by my kids; yeah, it&#039;s their fault!

[Fixed, Ray -- but I&#039;m leaving this one up because, hey, what are kids for if not to serve as convenient scapegoats? -- AEP]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I meant to block quote that first statement in #14.  Got distracted by my kids; yeah, it&#8217;s their fault!</p>
<p>[Fixed, Ray -- but I'm leaving this one up because, hey, what are kids for if not to serve as convenient scapegoats? -- AEP]</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10167</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10167</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One quick thing: 



&lt;blockquote&gt;Most of the early Christians were Jews and they brought with them into the new religious group the race prejudices of their own people. &lt;/blockquote&gt;



Change &quot;Christians&quot; to &quot;Mormons&quot; and &quot;Jews&quot; to &quot;Protestants&quot; and &quot;race prejudices&quot; to &quot;incorrect traditions of their fathers, including race prejudices&quot; and you have a perfect description of one of the central issues of the Restoration - and why I think Jacob 5 and the on-going pruning is important to understand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One quick thing: </p>
<blockquote><p>Most of the early Christians were Jews and they brought with them into the new religious group the race prejudices of their own people. </p></blockquote>
<p>Change &#8220;Christians&#8221; to &#8220;Mormons&#8221; and &#8220;Jews&#8221; to &#8220;Protestants&#8221; and &#8220;race prejudices&#8221; to &#8220;incorrect traditions of their fathers, including race prejudices&#8221; and you have a perfect description of one of the central issues of the Restoration &#8211; and why I think Jacob 5 and the on-going pruning is important to understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10166</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely fascinating, Ardis.  

I don&#039;t have much time right now, but I really appreciate this post.  I might borrow blatantly from it for my own blog, but I will link to your full post if I do so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely fascinating, Ardis.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have much time right now, but I really appreciate this post.  I might borrow blatantly from it for my own blog, but I will link to your full post if I do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Reeve</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10162</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Reeve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#8, Justin, I want to read this the same way you suggest.  Certainly gives that impression.  It also hits all around the notion of &quot;race&quot; as a social/cultural construct.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#8, Justin, I want to read this the same way you suggest.  Certainly gives that impression.  It also hits all around the notion of &#8220;race&#8221; as a social/cultural construct.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidH</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10161</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It appears to me that there have been, and to some extent, continue to be two strains in thinking about race/lineage in the Church--the racial/lineage equality approach evinced here (and what currently appears to be the official Church position) and the racial/lineage distinctiveness approach evident in Mormon Doctrine (at 114: &quot;Deity in his infinite wisdom, to carry out his inscrutable purposes, has a caste system of his own, a system of segregation of races and peoples.&quot;)

My perception is that, historically, within the Church, those who took the race/lineage equality position were perceived as more &quot;liberal&quot; and those who took the race/lineage distinctness approach as more &quot;conservative.&quot;

I defer to Ardis on this, but I also have a perception that during this time period some of the general authorities considered that the Church education system had become much too liberal.  My recollection is that J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee and Boyd K. Packer worked very hard to make that Church education more conservative, and I think they were successful.

I wonder if this lesson is evidence of the &quot;liberalism&quot;, if not of Church education employees during the 1930s, but at least of manual writers.

[David, your comment was caught in the spam filter, I don&#039;t know why. Sorry for the delay in posting. - AEP]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears to me that there have been, and to some extent, continue to be two strains in thinking about race/lineage in the Church&#8211;the racial/lineage equality approach evinced here (and what currently appears to be the official Church position) and the racial/lineage distinctiveness approach evident in Mormon Doctrine (at 114: &#8220;Deity in his infinite wisdom, to carry out his inscrutable purposes, has a caste system of his own, a system of segregation of races and peoples.&#8221;)</p>
<p>My perception is that, historically, within the Church, those who took the race/lineage equality position were perceived as more &#8220;liberal&#8221; and those who took the race/lineage distinctness approach as more &#8220;conservative.&#8221;</p>
<p>I defer to Ardis on this, but I also have a perception that during this time period some of the general authorities considered that the Church education system had become much too liberal.  My recollection is that J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee and Boyd K. Packer worked very hard to make that Church education more conservative, and I think they were successful.</p>
<p>I wonder if this lesson is evidence of the &#8220;liberalism&#8221;, if not of Church education employees during the 1930s, but at least of manual writers.</p>
<p>[David, your comment was caught in the spam filter, I don't know why. Sorry for the delay in posting. - AEP]</p>
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		<title>By: Anne (UK)</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10160</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne (UK)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it&#039;s a fascinating article- I was taken by the folksy approach (reference to this &#039;knotty problem&#039;, for instance) and the general conversational tone. It really is different from other Church materials I&#039;ve read from this period...thanks so much for posting!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s a fascinating article- I was taken by the folksy approach (reference to this &#8216;knotty problem&#8217;, for instance) and the general conversational tone. It really is different from other Church materials I&#8217;ve read from this period&#8230;thanks so much for posting!</p>
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		<title>By: Kaimi</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10159</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very cool find, Ardis.  And very different from what I expected to see.  :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very cool find, Ardis.  And very different from what I expected to see.  <img src='http://www.keepapitchinin.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/04/24/mormon-teachings-on-race-relations-1935/comment-page-1/#comment-10158</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1689#comment-10158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks manaen and Doc. It could be useful to have &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; circulate as widely as some of the other stuff. It&#039;s a lesson that was certainly prescriptive rather than descriptive, but it &lt;em&gt;existed&lt;/em&gt;

Justin, my whiskers twitched at the same places. Whoever the unknown writer is (and I think it must have been an individual rather than a committee, although the Board undoubtedly passed it), he is deliberately stepping outside the traditional Mormon literalist interpretation to make his point about the relation of religion and race relations. I can&#039;t tell whether he is saying that relationship had illegitimate origins or not; he is only explicit in citing the religious ideas &lt;em&gt;as&lt;/em&gt; origins, isn&#039;t he?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks manaen and Doc. It could be useful to have <em>this</em> circulate as widely as some of the other stuff. It&#8217;s a lesson that was certainly prescriptive rather than descriptive, but it <em>existed</em></p>
<p>Justin, my whiskers twitched at the same places. Whoever the unknown writer is (and I think it must have been an individual rather than a committee, although the Board undoubtedly passed it), he is deliberately stepping outside the traditional Mormon literalist interpretation to make his point about the relation of religion and race relations. I can&#8217;t tell whether he is saying that relationship had illegitimate origins or not; he is only explicit in citing the religious ideas <em>as</em> origins, isn&#8217;t he?</p>
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