Comments on: The British Mission in World War II: “We Shall Come through This Great Struggle Unconquered”

By: Anne (UK)

Anne (UK) — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 17:50:34 +0000

Steve C : thank you. I find it a fascinating part of our history which is little discussed these days.

Ardis: I look forward to those posts!

The first European Stake was formed in Manchester, England, in 1960. We had a temple here before any stakes, which seems odd these days! Once the London Temple was dedicated in 1958, members were encouraged to stay put, although by then so many had friends and family who had emigrated, it took a while for that to take effect, I suppose.

By: Mark B.

Mark B. — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:30:42 +0000

The New York Stake was created in 1934, Washington D.C. in 1940, Detroit in 1952, Philadelphia in 1960 and Boston in 1962. The names of some of the first stake presidents suggest where the leadership came from: Ezra Taft Benson in Washington, George Romney in Detroit, for example.

I suspect that much of the church growth that led to the creation of the Los Angeles Stake came through migration–and the relative nearness of California to the Mormon Corridor led to much higher levels of migration to California than to the East.

About stakes in California, the church almanac says that the Los Angeles Stake was divided four years after it was organized (Hollywood), that one additional stake (San Francisco) was created in the 1920s, with 8 more in the 1930s, 5 in the 1940s and 30 in the 1950s.

By contrast, the original New York Stake wasn’t divided until 1960 (New Jersey), 1967 (Long Island–now Plainview), and 1978 (Kitchawan, now Yorktown, NY–the northern suburbs). Since then the New Jersey Stake has become four, the northern suburbs have become three, the city itself three, and Plainview remains the cheese that stands alone.

In addition to the “distance from Utah” factor–which meant of course distance from extended family and from temples–the eastern cities had less in-migration because they were real cities and not quasi-suburban blobs, the latter being deemed, in one of the great heresies of the late 20th century, to be more family-friendly.

By: Justin

Justin — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:43:33 +0000

I didn’t finish my thought. Significant as a stake organized in a large urban area outside the intermountain area. Of course, there were stakes organized in the 20th century outside the intermountain area that preceded it (e.g., Union Stake).

By: Bruce Crow

Bruce Crow — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:40:11 +0000

The first stake in the U. S. South was in Jacksonville, Florida in 1947.

By: Justin

Justin — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:17:21 +0000

I think the organization of the Los Angeles stake (1923) was significant.

By: Steve C.

Steve C. — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:43:03 +0000

Anne (UK): I apprecite your remarks. I am truely amazed at the wonderful job of the European Saints in running the Church during the WWII–both in Germany and in Great Britain. It was people like George Bailey and Otto Berndt who held the Church together during the years of conflict. I also have to say that the European Relief Societies rose to the occasion. Too often we discount or ignore the contributions of the RS.

Ardis: I’m looking forward to your posts on the British Saints in WWII.

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:19:31 +0000

St. Louis had its own stake in the 1850s, but that was an anomaly. I don’t know about the organization of stakes in the 20th century — anybody?

By: Bruce Crow

Bruce Crow — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:18:43 +0000

I wonder if this attitude was in part because of the way stakes were formed. Nearly all of the early ones were really colonies; communities set up from from scratch; complete with a street grid based on the Zion Platt. Kirtland, Independence and Nauvoo were a little different since there were already settlers there. But they were still considered gathering places too.

When was the first stake organized outside the areas the saints colonized? In the U. S, South it was in the 1920′s, I think. Florida if I recall correctly. And after widespread emigration stopped.

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:24:18 +0000

Anne, I’ve got a few stories from those years — both about how the local members carried on the church work and about surviving bombings — that I’ll be posting soon.

But you can’t have your Pioneers back, sorry. They’ve made too great a contribution to the settlement of Utah and to the entire history of the Church in the U.S. Couldn’t have made it without them. No, sorry, we’re keeping them.

Even George H. Bailey and family emigrated to Utah after the war. That surprised me.

By: Anne (UK)

Anne (UK) — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:42:59 +0000

In response to Maurine’s post, I believe (and I think people here would agree with me) the biggest hurdle the Church has faced in the UK is the fact that so many did emigrate to Zion in the early days- indeed, until pretty recently. We lost our local leadership to the cause of building up Zion.I have absolutely no quibble with that on a personal level-they were following the admonition of the Prophet at the time- but it is interesting to contemplate, when we see ward closures today, small units, and the like, what the Church would have been like here now if those emigrants had stayed. I have occasionally been heard to mutter ‘we’d like our Pioneers back, now, please’

British priesthood holders did an amazing job here during World War 2. Bear in mind that the younger men were called to active service,so entire units were left without priesthood holders, and sisters carried on as best they could.The (very few in number) older Brethren were the ones who were left to carry on the work, and spent hours travelling the country, (very difficult given wartime travelling restrictions) to keep things together.

President Andre Anastasiou (as mentioned in Ardis’ post) deserves recognition and commendation for the work he undertook. When bombing in central London became intense, he moved the British mission offices to the South London ward I was baptised into in the 70′s (though not as long standing as Alison ) and some of the elderly members there then would talk of the old building and the war years. I hope someone recorded their experiences as they are all long gone now.

(I believe the Anastasiou’s emigrated to Utah after the war,(that’s from memory) but don’t have my sources on hand to check just now).

Thank you for posting this, Ardis.