Comments on: Mary in Mormon Art: “A Little Study of Madonnas” http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/ Where our past is never very long ago Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:21:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Steve C. http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-13690 Steve C. Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:19:47 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-13690 RE: Comment #19 Did you see the cover of the Aug. 2009 <em>Ensign</em>? :-) RE: Comment #19

Did you see the cover of the Aug. 2009 Ensign? :-)

]]> By: BHodges http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-13683 BHodges Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:55:07 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-13683 Great post, Ardis, thanks! Great post, Ardis, thanks!

]]> By: Clark http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-8715 Clark Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:51:52 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-8715 Someone should just do a history of odd things that have collected in the SLC temple over the years but which have no (Mormon) significance. Someone should just do a history of odd things that have collected in the SLC temple over the years but which have no (Mormon) significance.

]]> By: Ardis E. Parshall http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-8713 Ardis E. Parshall Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:01:34 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-8713 I really need to talk to Richard Oman again (newly retired, though), with a pen and paper in hand to get the story straight. It's a widespread story with so many variations that it's easy to tell that we've all been made a part of the folklore process, Clark. I'm not even going to vouch for what I think I remember Richard telling me. Okay, Justin, I see where I misread, thanks. These things nag at me (and evidently at others, too -- you know who you are, Jami and Nicole!) until they're all neatly tied up. The Mormon sensitivity to cultural images sounds like an article that should already have been published, probably in one of the independent Mormon journals or as a master's thesis. (We couldn't have had an original thought, could we? :) ) I really need to talk to Richard Oman again (newly retired, though), with a pen and paper in hand to get the story straight. It’s a widespread story with so many variations that it’s easy to tell that we’ve all been made a part of the folklore process, Clark. I’m not even going to vouch for what I think I remember Richard telling me.

Okay, Justin, I see where I misread, thanks. These things nag at me (and evidently at others, too — you know who you are, Jami and Nicole!) until they’re all neatly tied up.

The Mormon sensitivity to cultural images sounds like an article that should already have been published, probably in one of the independent Mormon journals or as a master’s thesis. (We couldn’t have had an original thought, could we? :) )

]]> By: Clark http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-8712 Clark Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:56:32 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-8712 Whoops - didn't read the comments. I wonder if I'm thinking of the same statue. I heard several workers in the 90's tell me it was donated by France. Whoops – didn’t read the comments. I wonder if I’m thinking of the same statue. I heard several workers in the 90′s tell me it was donated by France.

]]> By: Clark http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-8711 Clark Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:54:08 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-8711 <blockquote>The use of cherubs, or baby angels, in the SLC temple is also interesting</blockquote> I thought those were "non-essential" symbols, much like that statue in the SLC Celestial room donated by the French government. (Or the big vase in front of the door to the Holy of Holies to prevent people from peeking through the keyhole)

The use of cherubs, or baby angels, in the SLC temple is also interesting

I thought those were “non-essential” symbols, much like that statue in the SLC Celestial room donated by the French government. (Or the big vase in front of the door to the Holy of Holies to prevent people from peeking through the keyhole)

]]> By: Steve C. http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-8710 Steve C. Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:42:48 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-8710 A very interesting and thought-provoking post. I really appreciate the images presented above. I think in the Church we shy away from "Catholic" iconography to the point that we fail to appreciate some of the great contributions to western art. I would be interested, as well, in the changes in LDS sensitivity to religious art and the evolution of Mormon iconography. A very interesting and thought-provoking post. I really appreciate the images presented above. I think in the Church we shy away from “Catholic” iconography to the point that we fail to appreciate some of the great contributions to western art.

I would be interested, as well, in the changes in LDS sensitivity to religious art and the evolution of Mormon iconography.

]]> By: Justin http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-8709 Justin Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:16:13 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-8709 I may be confused here, Ardis, but I actually agree with your speculation (at least I think I do). To clarify one point, the quotation in #16 pertains to the painting found by Jami and Nicole, not to the image reproduced in the YWJ. I would be interested to see the Madonna and Child in the Galleria Colonna, Rome. Perhaps it more closely resembles the YWJ version. <blockquote>The engraving used by the YWJ may have been simplified before it was picked up by our magazine, or perhaps the YWJ engraving was made from a reproduction copy (painted, I mean, by a student or by an artist making reproductions for sale because mechanical reproductions weren’t very sophisticated yet — I certainly found a lot of such images when searching for the other Madonnas).</blockquote> I would also guess that the YWJ engraving derived (whether directly or not) from a (rather inferior) copy of the original painting. I may be confused here, Ardis, but I actually agree with your speculation (at least I think I do). To clarify one point, the quotation in #16 pertains to the painting found by Jami and Nicole, not to the image reproduced in the YWJ.

I would be interested to see the Madonna and Child in the Galleria Colonna, Rome. Perhaps it more closely resembles the YWJ version.

The engraving used by the YWJ may have been simplified before it was picked up by our magazine, or perhaps the YWJ engraving was made from a reproduction copy (painted, I mean, by a student or by an artist making reproductions for sale because mechanical reproductions weren’t very sophisticated yet — I certainly found a lot of such images when searching for the other Madonnas).

I would also guess that the YWJ engraving derived (whether directly or not) from a (rather inferior) copy of the original painting.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-8708 J. Stapley Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:04:56 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-8708 The use of cherubs, or baby angels, in the SLC temple is also interesting. What I do remember about Josh's presentation at MHA, was his characterization of Mormon iconography in the temples, which was purged by later generations. I have the (generally unsubstantiated) feeling that the anti-catholic sentiment towards art was championed and perhaps popularized by folks like Mark E. Peterson, Alvin Dyer and Bruce R. McConkie. <a href="http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/22/of-wise-guys-and-angels-wings/" rel="nofollow">Your post</a> on Dyer and angel wings is a great example (though Peterson appears to have been fine with the doors, as evidence in Dyers diary). I have heard folklore that Elder Peterson was responsible for painting over the murals in the SLC Assembly Hall and for randomly defacing all-seeing eyes from SLC architecture. The use of cherubs, or baby angels, in the SLC temple is also interesting. What I do remember about Josh’s presentation at MHA, was his characterization of Mormon iconography in the temples, which was purged by later generations. I have the (generally unsubstantiated) feeling that the anti-catholic sentiment towards art was championed and perhaps popularized by folks like Mark E. Peterson, Alvin Dyer and Bruce R. McConkie. Your post on Dyer and angel wings is a great example (though Peterson appears to have been fine with the doors, as evidence in Dyers diary). I have heard folklore that Elder Peterson was responsible for painting over the murals in the SLC Assembly Hall and for randomly defacing all-seeing eyes from SLC architecture.

]]> By: Ardis E. Parshall http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/31/mary-in-mormon-art-a-little-study-of-madonnas/comment-page-1/#comment-8705 Ardis E. Parshall Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:49:24 +0000 http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1332#comment-8705 16: Well, Justin, you just shot down my speculation! Thanks. Unless a color picture of a full-length Madonna matching the black-and-white one turns up, we'll leave up what's there, because there are so many parallels. 16: Well, Justin, you just shot down my speculation! Thanks. Unless a color picture of a full-length Madonna matching the black-and-white one turns up, we’ll leave up what’s there, because there are so many parallels.

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