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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s Wrong with Mormon History? I&#8217;ll Tell You What&#8217;s Wrong &#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8680</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Andrew Jenson both wrote the story and appears in the photograph. 

I&#039;m not mad at him or anybody else, really, just frustrated that some key information -- key, in my opinion, from the vantage point of 2009 -- was omitted, and it&#039;s ironic that a fine historian is the one who omitted it.

I&#039;ve enjoyed all the comments on this thread, thanks. As several of you have pointed out, there is adequate explanation for why diarists and journalists of the past haven&#039;t included all the details I crave, and I recognize that I will no doubt be judged guilty a century from now of the same failure to include details that are key from the perspective of 2109. 

This post really wasn&#039;t meant to condemn anybody, least of all Andrew Jenson who did so very, very much to preserve our records. Written Mormon history would today be a much different, and impoverished, shadow of what we do have, had it not been for his untiring and world-wide efforts.

Rather, I really only intended to drag you into my world, where the answers to questions always seem to be &lt;em&gt;almost&lt;/em&gt; but &lt;em&gt;not quite&lt;/em&gt; within our grasp. My &quot;thing&quot; is to tell the stories of Saints most of us have never heard of before. One of the reasons why we have never heard of them before is, as in this Danish example, nobody at the time thought it significant to record the details.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Jenson both wrote the story and appears in the photograph. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not mad at him or anybody else, really, just frustrated that some key information &#8212; key, in my opinion, from the vantage point of 2009 &#8212; was omitted, and it&#8217;s ironic that a fine historian is the one who omitted it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve enjoyed all the comments on this thread, thanks. As several of you have pointed out, there is adequate explanation for why diarists and journalists of the past haven&#8217;t included all the details I crave, and I recognize that I will no doubt be judged guilty a century from now of the same failure to include details that are key from the perspective of 2109. </p>
<p>This post really wasn&#8217;t meant to condemn anybody, least of all Andrew Jenson who did so very, very much to preserve our records. Written Mormon history would today be a much different, and impoverished, shadow of what we do have, had it not been for his untiring and world-wide efforts.</p>
<p>Rather, I really only intended to drag you into my world, where the answers to questions always seem to be <em>almost</em> but <em>not quite</em> within our grasp. My &#8220;thing&#8221; is to tell the stories of Saints most of us have never heard of before. One of the reasons why we have never heard of them before is, as in this Danish example, nobody at the time thought it significant to record the details.</p>
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		<title>By: It's Not Me</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8678</link>
		<dc:creator>It's Not Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not clear to me.  Are you made at Andrew Jensen for writing the article without the names, or are you mad at the person who took the photograph for failing to record the names?  

I&#039;m guessing Andrew Jensen was not alive when the photo was taken.  If the names were not recorded, how would Andrew Jensen know the names?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not clear to me.  Are you made at Andrew Jensen for writing the article without the names, or are you mad at the person who took the photograph for failing to record the names?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing Andrew Jensen was not alive when the photo was taken.  If the names were not recorded, how would Andrew Jensen know the names?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob F</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8664</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I had the hardest time finding out details of my great-great grandfather in Wales until I stumbled across the digitized journal of a missionary who kept a detailed account of his interactions with the family, including documenting exact names, comments about their talents and propensities, etc. Thanks to Elder John Thomas and to the Thomas family for preserving and digitizing his journal!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had the hardest time finding out details of my great-great grandfather in Wales until I stumbled across the digitized journal of a missionary who kept a detailed account of his interactions with the family, including documenting exact names, comments about their talents and propensities, etc. Thanks to Elder John Thomas and to the Thomas family for preserving and digitizing his journal!</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Larsen</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8650</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 02:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8650</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This happened here in New York City also. The Eastern States Mission closed in 1857 and only reopened in 1893, and from most accounts, you would think that nothing Mormon happened here for nearly 40 years.

Except, of course, that something like 50,000 LDS immigrants passed through New York City on their way to Utah, some staying two and three years to earn the rest of their passage. A New York Times article from 1867 claims that there was a congregation of 300 in Manhattan, and another congregation in Brooklyn and that some local members were talking about building a &quot;Temple&quot; in New York. But with no missionaries here, there isn&#039;t any branch listed for that time in official Church records.

Who were the local members here then? I wish I knew. The Times article doesn&#039;t mention names, and the only sources I have that mention anything are the occasional immigrant diary or autobiography that mentions living in New York City for a time.

Finding the information about members then is frustrating and nearly impossible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This happened here in New York City also. The Eastern States Mission closed in 1857 and only reopened in 1893, and from most accounts, you would think that nothing Mormon happened here for nearly 40 years.</p>
<p>Except, of course, that something like 50,000 LDS immigrants passed through New York City on their way to Utah, some staying two and three years to earn the rest of their passage. A New York Times article from 1867 claims that there was a congregation of 300 in Manhattan, and another congregation in Brooklyn and that some local members were talking about building a &#8220;Temple&#8221; in New York. But with no missionaries here, there isn&#8217;t any branch listed for that time in official Church records.</p>
<p>Who were the local members here then? I wish I knew. The Times article doesn&#8217;t mention names, and the only sources I have that mention anything are the occasional immigrant diary or autobiography that mentions living in New York City for a time.</p>
<p>Finding the information about members then is frustrating and nearly impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8640</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;And apparently nothing much else happened all day long.&quot;  

That&#039;s why it&#039;s important to abridge and record &quot;the good parts version&quot;.  Goldman was right to edit good old S. Morgenstern&#039;s record, as this sounds like the summary at the end of his immortal, one-page Chapter 4: 

&quot;What with one thing and another, three years passed.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And apparently nothing much else happened all day long.&#8221;  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s important to abridge and record &#8220;the good parts version&#8221;.  Goldman was right to edit good old S. Morgenstern&#8217;s record, as this sounds like the summary at the end of his immortal, one-page Chapter 4: </p>
<p>&#8220;What with one thing and another, three years passed.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8639</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, and back in the &#039;60s when my mother was publishing a ward newspaper, a labor missionary&#039;s mother loaned Mom the journal entries sent home by the missionary so that Mom could write articles about the missionary&#039;s life and labors. She really struggled, because many of his entries were limited to noting that &quot;I got up this morning and drank my lemon juice and water.&quot; Every morning. Lemon juice and water. And apparently nothing much else happened all day long.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and back in the &#8217;60s when my mother was publishing a ward newspaper, a labor missionary&#8217;s mother loaned Mom the journal entries sent home by the missionary so that Mom could write articles about the missionary&#8217;s life and labors. She really struggled, because many of his entries were limited to noting that &#8220;I got up this morning and drank my lemon juice and water.&#8221; Every morning. Lemon juice and water. And apparently nothing much else happened all day long.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8638</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8638</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like m&amp;m&#039;s idea for suggestions on what might be valuable to include in a journal, especially in light of the examples given by Bruce and Hunter.

The most tedious journal I ever had to transcribe for a client was one in which the daily entry pretty much amounted to how many adobes he had made that day. Not of much interest to me, but I suppose even that kind of diary could be valuable to someone studying labor or economics or material culture or something along those lines.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like m&#038;m&#8217;s idea for suggestions on what might be valuable to include in a journal, especially in light of the examples given by Bruce and Hunter.</p>
<p>The most tedious journal I ever had to transcribe for a client was one in which the daily entry pretty much amounted to how many adobes he had made that day. Not of much interest to me, but I suppose even that kind of diary could be valuable to someone studying labor or economics or material culture or something along those lines.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8636</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Without a little context or meaning, I find some of these trivial facts included in journals to be tedious distractions.  For example, I was reading my uncle&#039;s autobiography over the weekend, and in one passage from the late 1970s, after a wonderful discussion about his children, my uncles says: &quot;The New York Yankees won the World Series.&quot;  So?  If he had included some more context as to why that fact was important, fine.  But if I had wanted to know who won the World Series that year, I could easily find it elsewhere.  Instead, it was a distraction to the stuff that preceded it.

That sounds harsh, and I didn&#039;t mean it to be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without a little context or meaning, I find some of these trivial facts included in journals to be tedious distractions.  For example, I was reading my uncle&#8217;s autobiography over the weekend, and in one passage from the late 1970s, after a wonderful discussion about his children, my uncles says: &#8220;The New York Yankees won the World Series.&#8221;  So?  If he had included some more context as to why that fact was important, fine.  But if I had wanted to know who won the World Series that year, I could easily find it elsewhere.  Instead, it was a distraction to the stuff that preceded it.</p>
<p>That sounds harsh, and I didn&#8217;t mean it to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8632</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My great grandfather wrote in meticulous detail in his journals. For 40 years he recorded when he got up, when he lit the fire in the stove, what he had for breakfast, when he left the house for work. As my brother started transcribing it, it became a source of amusement to read through the items we were sure had no real value. In the end I probably have not read it mostly because there is too much to sort through to find the stuff I want to know. But it was important to him. Important enough to record it for 40 years.

Will historians 100 years from now find his detail a refreshing change from the whining I used to put in my journals?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My great grandfather wrote in meticulous detail in his journals. For 40 years he recorded when he got up, when he lit the fire in the stove, what he had for breakfast, when he left the house for work. As my brother started transcribing it, it became a source of amusement to read through the items we were sure had no real value. In the end I probably have not read it mostly because there is too much to sort through to find the stuff I want to know. But it was important to him. Important enough to record it for 40 years.</p>
<p>Will historians 100 years from now find his detail a refreshing change from the whining I used to put in my journals?</p>
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		<title>By: m&#38;m</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/03/27/whats-wrong-with-mormon-history-ill-tell-you-whats-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-8624</link>
		<dc:creator>m&#38;m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 06:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=1354#comment-8624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis, you are making me think about what kinds of details would be good to include in my journal. I think there&#039;s probably another element of what happened -- did these people really think people would REALLY read what they wrote? I end up feeling that is so remote, but your post makes me think more carefully about considering that people actually MIGHT read what I write, and it&#039;s worth considering what might be of value.

Soooo, now my request that that you do a follow-up post outlining an historian&#039;s view of important things to consider including in a personal history. If you haven&#039;t already, of course. :)

Pretty please?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis, you are making me think about what kinds of details would be good to include in my journal. I think there&#8217;s probably another element of what happened &#8212; did these people really think people would REALLY read what they wrote? I end up feeling that is so remote, but your post makes me think more carefully about considering that people actually MIGHT read what I write, and it&#8217;s worth considering what might be of value.</p>
<p>Soooo, now my request that that you do a follow-up post outlining an historian&#8217;s view of important things to consider including in a personal history. If you haven&#8217;t already, of course. <img src='http://www.keepapitchinin.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Pretty please?</p>
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