Comments on: “You Can’t Go to Heaven in Cologne Water”: A Missionary Talk by J. Golden Kimball

By: BruceCrow

BruceCrow — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:19:56 +0000

Most of the documents I come across uses J. G. Kimball. But it is surprisingly common in missionary journals of the period in the south to use just the first initials, not just for themself, but also for everyone the missionary wrote about. Do you know if this was a Mormon thing, a southern thing, or if it was just common for the period?

I’ve also noticed nearly all the people from the south prefered their middle name in daily familiar usage instead of their first name. Perhaps J. Golden Kimball brought this practice home with him from the south.

By: Jacob J

Jacob J — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:02:58 +0000

Sure, I do see that they are being held up as notable people “of the world,” but he did start with “Why didn’t he choose great men like…” when mentioning Grover Cleveland, so I was inferring that there was some level of esteem given to those men, even if his point was ultimately that God works through the humble men of the earth rather than the “wise, “learned,” or “great.” I can see it could be taken a different way though.

I do love the line about cologne water you called out in the title.

By: Ben Pratt

Ben Pratt — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:29:35 +0000

Thanks, Ardis!

Jacob (#4), he seemed to me to be holding those fellows up as notable or famous, though not necessarily worthy of emulation or praise. On the contrary, he seems to have hinted that such men, if given a message by God, would tend to use the opportunity to build themselves up.

By: Ardis E. Parshall

Ardis E. Parshall — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:22:25 +0000

Thanks for your comments.

Hunter, I’m guessing that the reality of the persecution in 1891 South Carolina, as documented in the same missionary ledger where this talk was found (the same one, incidentally, recording the early church experiences of the Noblin family) was a lot more immediate and painful than contemplating the earlier Missouri or Nauvoo or Plains accounts, and that those Saints needed something to understand and give meaning to their troubles — another example of the “likening” you mention. And dangit, I’ll try to have JGK swear more next time.

Jacob, either that … or it wasn’t really esteem. JGK eclipsed all the greatness of those men by placing a Jewish carpenter and a New York farm boy ahead of those former presidents in his scale of what matters.

Researcher, I see “Jonathan G.” (or plain J.G.) exclusively in JGK’s early life. I’m not sure when he became better known as “J. Golden” — I used “J. Golden” here because I wasn’t sure everyone would recognize him as “Jonathan G.”

… and I’m with you about the length of the talk!

By: Researcher

Researcher — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:52:41 +0000

That’s a lovely talk. Just the right length, too!

I was just reading through the Latter Day Saints Southern Star (a publication of the Southern States Mission) and saw an 1899 conference address of his reproduced with the byline of Jonathan G. Kimball. Did he use both names?

By: Jacob J

Jacob J — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:37:17 +0000

Yea, sounds like it was one hell of a talk. I am a bit surprised at the references to Grover Cleveland, James Garfield, and Benjamin Harrison. Perhaps people held those people in higher esteem than we tend to hold our recent presidents?

By: Hunter

Hunter — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:32:41 +0000

J. Golden says that the Isaiah verse “has been fulfilled.” Wow. I always marvel at the ability of some to literally liken scriptural prophecies to themselves (something I am usually loathe to do). It’s wonderful when that likening really does seem apt, and without closing off its application to future generations.

I was also inspired by this idea of the Saints in South Carolina wrestling with the meaning of persecution. In 1891, these Saints surely had the example of the western migrating pioneers, not to mention the hallmark persecution stories of Joseph Smith himself. Perhaps being removed somewhat from “Zion Central,” these South Carolinians had to develop their own ownership of this concept? Apparently it wasn’t something that came naturally, as per the reference to supposed wickedness being the cause.

Fascinating. Thanks for this, Ardis.

P.S. More cussing next time, though. [wink]

By: Ardis Parshall

Ardis Parshall — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:44:27 +0000

Whoops, you are, of course, right. Seventy. I’ll correct that.

By: JM

JM — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:21:09 +0000

I’m pretty sure he was never an apostle.