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	<title>Comments on: Poll: Our Beliefs about Their Beliefs: The 1964 Civil Rights Act</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-15644</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-15644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What can I say, Jeremy? &quot;In the future&quot;? :) 

Honestly, I had something in mind when I posted the poll, something to do with an article in a 1964 or &#039;65 issue of the &lt;em&gt;Improvement Era&lt;/em&gt;. It surprised me that the article spoke as highly of the Civil Rights Act as it did, because all of my adult life I&#039;ve had it drummed into me that we were racists, all racists, and nothing but racists, and I wondered if others had the same experience. 

My idea was something about how what matters today can color and distort our impressions of what happened yesterday, but I decided that was too heavy to attack in a single post. Maybe I&#039;ll still dig out the editorial and post it, though. It&#039;s still in my mile-high stack of potential posts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What can I say, Jeremy? &#8220;In the future&#8221;? <img src='http://www.keepapitchinin.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Honestly, I had something in mind when I posted the poll, something to do with an article in a 1964 or &#8217;65 issue of the <em>Improvement Era</em>. It surprised me that the article spoke as highly of the Civil Rights Act as it did, because all of my adult life I&#8217;ve had it drummed into me that we were racists, all racists, and nothing but racists, and I wondered if others had the same experience. </p>
<p>My idea was something about how what matters today can color and distort our impressions of what happened yesterday, but I decided that was too heavy to attack in a single post. Maybe I&#8217;ll still dig out the editorial and post it, though. It&#8217;s still in my mile-high stack of potential posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Jensen</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-15641</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-15641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When is the future post going to happen?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When is the future post going to happen?</p>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-6091</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 00:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-6091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know that my mother&#039;s family (relatives, etc.) all vehemently opposed it.  I know that my father&#039;s family was fairly split.

(My mother, though, is generally apolitical.  And my father oscillates between his love for unions and Rush Limbaugh.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that my mother&#8217;s family (relatives, etc.) all vehemently opposed it.  I know that my father&#8217;s family was fairly split.</p>
<p>(My mother, though, is generally apolitical.  And my father oscillates between his love for unions and Rush Limbaugh.)</p>
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		<title>By: Maurine</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-5941</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-5941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In 1956, I went with about 70 Seminary students on a trip from Utah to Florida, up the coast to New York, then visited LDS historic sites as we traveled back to Utah. I remember seeing the signs on service station restrooms segregating the men, women, and blacks. It really upset me. When I got home, I talked about it to a lot of friends and family members. They all felt the same way. They didn&#039;t like the way the blacks were treated. 

This is just one example I mention about comments that I remember during the late 1950s and the 1960. Based on people I knew, I am voting that Mormons probably were supportive of the Civil Rights Act.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1956, I went with about 70 Seminary students on a trip from Utah to Florida, up the coast to New York, then visited LDS historic sites as we traveled back to Utah. I remember seeing the signs on service station restrooms segregating the men, women, and blacks. It really upset me. When I got home, I talked about it to a lot of friends and family members. They all felt the same way. They didn&#8217;t like the way the blacks were treated. </p>
<p>This is just one example I mention about comments that I remember during the late 1950s and the 1960. Based on people I knew, I am voting that Mormons probably were supportive of the Civil Rights Act.</p>
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		<title>By: David G.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-5933</link>
		<dc:creator>David G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-5933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark B., as I explained, just because Utah voted for LBJ in 1964 does not mean that Utahns supported the Civil Rights Act. You&#039;re correct that there were few minorities in Utah in 1969, but I don&#039;t think that would necessarily mean that Utahns weren&#039;t interested in the implications of civil rights legislation, for both racial reasons and the expansion of federal power. Also, your example of Provo High as an integrated school is a bit problematic, since no western state legally segregated schools. Even without segregation laws on the books, many outside observers (including the NAACP in the early 1960s) considered Utah to be as legally restrictive for minorities as any Southern state. Utah was the last state to allow Indians living on reservations to vote in local elections (I think in 1958, well after every other state) and the state legislature didn&#039;t repeal its anti-miscegenation laws weren&#039;t until 1963 (again, well behind the curve). My point is simply that Utah was far from a racial utopia in 1964, and using the election of LBJ to suggest otherwise is a bit problematic.

BTW, when you say there were no &quot;Native Americans&quot; in 1969, do you mean that people weren&#039;t using that term? I&#039;m not sure when it was invented, but I do know that by 1972 the term was in in common enough usage for AIM activists to rename the Bureau of Indian Affairs the Native American Embassy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark B., as I explained, just because Utah voted for LBJ in 1964 does not mean that Utahns supported the Civil Rights Act. You&#8217;re correct that there were few minorities in Utah in 1969, but I don&#8217;t think that would necessarily mean that Utahns weren&#8217;t interested in the implications of civil rights legislation, for both racial reasons and the expansion of federal power. Also, your example of Provo High as an integrated school is a bit problematic, since no western state legally segregated schools. Even without segregation laws on the books, many outside observers (including the NAACP in the early 1960s) considered Utah to be as legally restrictive for minorities as any Southern state. Utah was the last state to allow Indians living on reservations to vote in local elections (I think in 1958, well after every other state) and the state legislature didn&#8217;t repeal its anti-miscegenation laws weren&#8217;t until 1963 (again, well behind the curve). My point is simply that Utah was far from a racial utopia in 1964, and using the election of LBJ to suggest otherwise is a bit problematic.</p>
<p>BTW, when you say there were no &#8220;Native Americans&#8221; in 1969, do you mean that people weren&#8217;t using that term? I&#8217;m not sure when it was invented, but I do know that by 1972 the term was in in common enough usage for AIM activists to rename the Bureau of Indian Affairs the Native American Embassy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-5931</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-5931</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David G

Johnson was indeed right about losing the South in 1964--except for Arizona, the only states that voted for Goldwater in that election were from the deep South:  South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana.  But Utahans obviously were not pushed into the Republican column by the Civil Rights Act--which suggests (as my old memory does) that &quot;civil rights for Negroes&quot; were viewed as someone else&#039;s problem.  By 1968 Utah had become a more Republican place and gave its electoral votes to Nixon, as it did in 1972.  But that was in the face (in 1968) of assassinations, chaos in the streets and on the college campuses and a general sense that things were falling apart, and Nixon&#039;s promise to bring back &quot;law and order&quot;.  I don&#039;t remember talk about civil rights or federal court ordered integration of schools or similar things.  Again, those issues didn&#039;t directly affect most Utah voters.

Besides, Provo High School in the late 1960s was a perfectly integrated place.  If you lived in Provo, and went to high school, you went there.  Whether you were among the 95% LDS majority or not, or the 98% Caucasian majority or not.  (Those numbers are guesses--I have no idea if the few Mexicans and Indians (there were no &quot;Native Americans in 1969) came to 2%.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David G</p>
<p>Johnson was indeed right about losing the South in 1964&#8211;except for Arizona, the only states that voted for Goldwater in that election were from the deep South:  South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana.  But Utahans obviously were not pushed into the Republican column by the Civil Rights Act&#8211;which suggests (as my old memory does) that &#8220;civil rights for Negroes&#8221; were viewed as someone else&#8217;s problem.  By 1968 Utah had become a more Republican place and gave its electoral votes to Nixon, as it did in 1972.  But that was in the face (in 1968) of assassinations, chaos in the streets and on the college campuses and a general sense that things were falling apart, and Nixon&#8217;s promise to bring back &#8220;law and order&#8221;.  I don&#8217;t remember talk about civil rights or federal court ordered integration of schools or similar things.  Again, those issues didn&#8217;t directly affect most Utah voters.</p>
<p>Besides, Provo High School in the late 1960s was a perfectly integrated place.  If you lived in Provo, and went to high school, you went there.  Whether you were among the 95% LDS majority or not, or the 98% Caucasian majority or not.  (Those numbers are guesses&#8211;I have no idea if the few Mexicans and Indians (there were no &#8220;Native Americans in 1969) came to 2%.)</p>
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		<title>By: David G.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-5924</link>
		<dc:creator>David G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-5924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I cannot say, regrettably, what role the Native Americans had in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or what protections they received or did not receive. I believe that Native Americans did not become citizens until well into the twentieth century, but without actually looking it up, I can’t say anything specifically about their efforts or involvement in the Civil Rights movement.&lt;/i&gt;

The 1964 Act was designed explicitly for Blacks, although by the 1970s many of its provisions had been reapplied to other minority groups (see John D. Skrentny, &lt;i&gt;The Minority Rights Revolution&lt;/i&gt;). In 1968, Congress passed what is known as the Indian Civil Rights Act, which did bolster some civil rights, but at the cost of weakening tribal sovereignty. Native Americans during the 1940s, &#039;50s, and &#039;60s in fact distinguished themselves from Blacks by using the slogan, &quot;We don&#039;t demonstrate,&quot; so they really weren&#039;t on Congress&#039; radar in 1964. American Indians themselves, like Latinos, really did not form prominent civil rights movements until the late 1960s and early 1970s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I cannot say, regrettably, what role the Native Americans had in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or what protections they received or did not receive. I believe that Native Americans did not become citizens until well into the twentieth century, but without actually looking it up, I can’t say anything specifically about their efforts or involvement in the Civil Rights movement.</i></p>
<p>The 1964 Act was designed explicitly for Blacks, although by the 1970s many of its provisions had been reapplied to other minority groups (see John D. Skrentny, <i>The Minority Rights Revolution</i>). In 1968, Congress passed what is known as the Indian Civil Rights Act, which did bolster some civil rights, but at the cost of weakening tribal sovereignty. Native Americans during the 1940s, &#8217;50s, and &#8217;60s in fact distinguished themselves from Blacks by using the slogan, &#8220;We don&#8217;t demonstrate,&#8221; so they really weren&#8217;t on Congress&#8217; radar in 1964. American Indians themselves, like Latinos, really did not form prominent civil rights movements until the late 1960s and early 1970s.</p>
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		<title>By: David G.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-5923</link>
		<dc:creator>David G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-5923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark B. (#12) - You&#039;ve made an important point, but one that deserves further scrutiny. It&#039;s important to remember that the South as well as the West were important parts of FDR&#039;s New Deal coalition, and both regions voted Democratic until the early 1970s. Both regions supported the Democrats because of economic reasons, and the shift to the Republicans occurred largely because of opposition to racial and other social issues, in particular busing. Johnson has the famous statement that historians like to quote, after he signed the Act, saying that in doing so he knew he had lost the South for the Democrats for a generation. The West doesn&#039;t get as much attention in discussions of the rise of movement conservatism, but my sense is that the shift occurred at roughly the same time for similar reasons.

I voted that the Saints opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, although I concede that my impression is based primarily on statements of Mormon leaders. I suspect that many rural Mormons opposed the Act, not necessarily because they were racists, but because they weren&#039;t comfortable with increased federal intervention.

On a side note, and Ardis, you may already know something about this, Utah played a small role in the final Act. The Utah State Advisory Committee to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights tried unsuccessfully to investigate the membership practices of a U of U fraternity (or maybe it was a sorority) that was denying membership to Blacks. The uproar caused by this led to a section of the act that excepted fraternal societies, churches, and other similar organizations from the act&#039;s provisions. If you know any thing more about this, could you email me Ardis? I&#039;ve got it on my list of future posts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark B. (#12) &#8211; You&#8217;ve made an important point, but one that deserves further scrutiny. It&#8217;s important to remember that the South as well as the West were important parts of FDR&#8217;s New Deal coalition, and both regions voted Democratic until the early 1970s. Both regions supported the Democrats because of economic reasons, and the shift to the Republicans occurred largely because of opposition to racial and other social issues, in particular busing. Johnson has the famous statement that historians like to quote, after he signed the Act, saying that in doing so he knew he had lost the South for the Democrats for a generation. The West doesn&#8217;t get as much attention in discussions of the rise of movement conservatism, but my sense is that the shift occurred at roughly the same time for similar reasons.</p>
<p>I voted that the Saints opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, although I concede that my impression is based primarily on statements of Mormon leaders. I suspect that many rural Mormons opposed the Act, not necessarily because they were racists, but because they weren&#8217;t comfortable with increased federal intervention.</p>
<p>On a side note, and Ardis, you may already know something about this, Utah played a small role in the final Act. The Utah State Advisory Committee to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights tried unsuccessfully to investigate the membership practices of a U of U fraternity (or maybe it was a sorority) that was denying membership to Blacks. The uproar caused by this led to a section of the act that excepted fraternal societies, churches, and other similar organizations from the act&#8217;s provisions. If you know any thing more about this, could you email me Ardis? I&#8217;ve got it on my list of future posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-5916</link>
		<dc:creator>Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-5916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No sooner did I finish my comment than I realized that I was fibbing. Race relations were a topic of great interest in my household while I was growing up. But despite the fact that my dad employed a black man and friends had a black (Haitian) foster son, African-American race relations were never discussed.

On the other hand, Native Americans were often discussed. &lt;em&gt;Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;Me and Mine&lt;/em&gt; and other books like that were standard reading in the household, and we were very aware of Native American issues and interests.

I cannot say, regrettably, what role the Native Americans had in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or what protections they received or did not receive. I believe that Native Americans did not become citizens until well into the twentieth century, but without actually looking it up, I can&#039;t say anything specifically about their efforts or involvement in the Civil Rights movement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No sooner did I finish my comment than I realized that I was fibbing. Race relations were a topic of great interest in my household while I was growing up. But despite the fact that my dad employed a black man and friends had a black (Haitian) foster son, African-American race relations were never discussed.</p>
<p>On the other hand, Native Americans were often discussed. <em>Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee</em> and <em>Me and Mine</em> and other books like that were standard reading in the household, and we were very aware of Native American issues and interests.</p>
<p>I cannot say, regrettably, what role the Native Americans had in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or what protections they received or did not receive. I believe that Native Americans did not become citizens until well into the twentieth century, but without actually looking it up, I can&#8217;t say anything specifically about their efforts or involvement in the Civil Rights movement.</p>
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		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/01/13/poll-our-beliefs-about-their-beliefs-the-1964-civil-rights-act/comment-page-1/#comment-5915</link>
		<dc:creator>Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=514#comment-5915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark B.&#039;s comment reminded me of a discussion years ago at the dinner table. We were discussing elements or noble metals or something and I asked my much younger brothers, &quot;Do you know what aurum is?&quot; One of them piped up, &quot;A city in Utah!&quot;

I&#039;ve been mulling over the race question. I cannot recall the Mormons I knew best (parents, grandparents, close friends) making any reference to race with the exception of a single statement by one of my grandmothers that is not relevant to this discussion. I wouldn&#039;t say that they didn&#039;t care about race, but it simply was not discussed. Kind of makes it hard to trace their views back in time ten or twenty years from my childhood.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark B.&#8217;s comment reminded me of a discussion years ago at the dinner table. We were discussing elements or noble metals or something and I asked my much younger brothers, &#8220;Do you know what aurum is?&#8221; One of them piped up, &#8220;A city in Utah!&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been mulling over the race question. I cannot recall the Mormons I knew best (parents, grandparents, close friends) making any reference to race with the exception of a single statement by one of my grandmothers that is not relevant to this discussion. I wouldn&#8217;t say that they didn&#8217;t care about race, but it simply was not discussed. Kind of makes it hard to trace their views back in time ten or twenty years from my childhood.</p>
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