<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: “The Qmlbwpnygax Eujugec Have Not the Power to Ktgjie the Wzznlhmpygtg”: Codes and Ciphers in Mormon History (part 3)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%E2%80%9Cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%E2%80%9D-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 21:23:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Morgan Adair</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4877</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan Adair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Love it. I ran across some coded passages in the diaries of Nathaniel Baldwin at the UofU. Baldwin was famous for inventing the headphones used on military radios. He was also a key figure in the founding of Mormon fundamentalist groups in the early 1900s. From context, I believe the coded passages dealt with prospective plural wives and meetings with other polygamists. I feel motivated now to go back and see if I can decode them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love it. I ran across some coded passages in the diaries of Nathaniel Baldwin at the UofU. Baldwin was famous for inventing the headphones used on military radios. He was also a key figure in the founding of Mormon fundamentalist groups in the early 1900s. From context, I believe the coded passages dealt with prospective plural wives and meetings with other polygamists. I feel motivated now to go back and see if I can decode them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4869</link>
		<dc:creator>John Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4869</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I struggle to keep my materials organized using the plain old alphabet. 

On the other hand, next time I&#039;m accused of turgid writing, I&#039;ll claim it&#039;s mid-nineteenth-century Latter-day Saint code.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I struggle to keep my materials organized using the plain old alphabet. </p>
<p>On the other hand, next time I&#8217;m accused of turgid writing, I&#8217;ll claim it&#8217;s mid-nineteenth-century Latter-day Saint code.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4866</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aw, shucks, guys [scuffing toe modestly]. As I&#039;ve said on one of these parts, I&#039;ve always been interested in codes. At one point I even kept my personal files alphabetized not by ABC... but by ETAONRISHDLFCMUGYPWBVKXJQZ, the letters in order of their English frequency. I notice whenever I run across code-events in the Mormon materials I use for normal work, and this paper really only took a week or two to pull together, after having made those mental notes for several years.

Matt Grow advised on the Kanes&#039; 1858 experiences, and the staff at LDS Archives were kind enough to let me have images of the snippets of letters they don&#039;t normally allow to be copied, because transcriptions really wouldn&#039;t do the job in some cases.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aw, shucks, guys [scuffing toe modestly]. As I&#8217;ve said on one of these parts, I&#8217;ve always been interested in codes. At one point I even kept my personal files alphabetized not by ABC&#8230; but by ETAONRISHDLFCMUGYPWBVKXJQZ, the letters in order of their English frequency. I notice whenever I run across code-events in the Mormon materials I use for normal work, and this paper really only took a week or two to pull together, after having made those mental notes for several years.</p>
<p>Matt Grow advised on the Kanes&#8217; 1858 experiences, and the staff at LDS Archives were kind enough to let me have images of the snippets of letters they don&#8217;t normally allow to be copied, because transcriptions really wouldn&#8217;t do the job in some cases.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4865</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis,

I&#039;ve been putting off reading this series until after I finished all of my papers for the semester. It was well worth the wait and anticipation. This was very cool stuff. Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been putting off reading this series until after I finished all of my papers for the semester. It was well worth the wait and anticipation. This was very cool stuff. Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4864</link>
		<dc:creator>John Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis,

This is positively fascinating. How many days / weeks / months / years of research does this represent?

I affirm the suggested publication, for what it&#039;s worth!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis,</p>
<p>This is positively fascinating. How many days / weeks / months / years of research does this represent?</p>
<p>I affirm the suggested publication, for what it&#8217;s worth!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J. Nelson-Seawright</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4863</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Nelson-Seawright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4863</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[XiGauss has the same sources on the Vigenere cipher that I do, and he&#039;s right that the decryption methods were only published in the last half of the 19th century.

The cipher, one might note, was already very old by the 19th century, having been formulated at least as early as 1467 by Renaissance man Leon Battista Alberti.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>XiGauss has the same sources on the Vigenere cipher that I do, and he&#8217;s right that the decryption methods were only published in the last half of the 19th century.</p>
<p>The cipher, one might note, was already very old by the 19th century, having been formulated at least as early as 1467 by Renaissance man Leon Battista Alberti.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4862</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Sorry for all these comments&lt;/em&gt;

Don&#039;t be! Comment early and often (Chicago political news must be on my mind for some reason).

The Navajo code talkers went even farther than using Navajo to communicate -- they created a code-within-a-code whereby a &quot;turtle&quot; was a specific kind of watercraft and a &quot;hawk&quot; was a specific kind of aircraft, or whatever. Even if somehow the Japanese had had a Navajo on their staff, he couldn&#039;t have known the code within the language. What a terrific skill!

XiGauss, I&#039;m guessing from your handle and your seemingly intimate knowledge of these sources that you use mathematics in real life. You&#039;re adding a lot to this conversation. It&#039;s good to have you here.

I&#039;ll be away from the computer  much of the afternoon and evening. A lot of comments have been getting trapped in the filter for some reason. If something doesn&#039;t show up when it should, please accept my apologies and know that I&#039;ll free the comments as soon as I can. I appreciate all the interest in this topic and the encouragement to prep it for publication.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Sorry for all these comments</em></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be! Comment early and often (Chicago political news must be on my mind for some reason).</p>
<p>The Navajo code talkers went even farther than using Navajo to communicate &#8212; they created a code-within-a-code whereby a &#8220;turtle&#8221; was a specific kind of watercraft and a &#8220;hawk&#8221; was a specific kind of aircraft, or whatever. Even if somehow the Japanese had had a Navajo on their staff, he couldn&#8217;t have known the code within the language. What a terrific skill!</p>
<p>XiGauss, I&#8217;m guessing from your handle and your seemingly intimate knowledge of these sources that you use mathematics in real life. You&#8217;re adding a lot to this conversation. It&#8217;s good to have you here.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be away from the computer  much of the afternoon and evening. A lot of comments have been getting trapped in the filter for some reason. If something doesn&#8217;t show up when it should, please accept my apologies and know that I&#8217;ll free the comments as soon as I can. I appreciate all the interest in this topic and the encouragement to prep it for publication.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4861</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4861</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry for all these comments, but the use of Hawaiian for a simple code obviously brings to mind the use of Navajo radio operators in the Pacific during WWII.  

However, a more interesting use of foreign languages relates to BYU basketball days when Danny Ainge and Timo Saaralinen both played.  Timo was a native of Finland, and I believe one or two other players or coaches had been on missions to Finland, so the team used to call out inbounds plays in Finnish, which pretty much made it indecipherable by the opposing scholar/athletes.

Things like that don&#039;t always work, especially in Utah.  There is the true story of two Finnish tourists who got pulled over in Sandy after an illegal u-turn, and feigned not knowing English by speaking only in Finnish.  The cop who pulled them over happened to have served in Finland, and replied in fluent Finnish that their turn was illegal in any language.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for all these comments, but the use of Hawaiian for a simple code obviously brings to mind the use of Navajo radio operators in the Pacific during WWII.  </p>
<p>However, a more interesting use of foreign languages relates to BYU basketball days when Danny Ainge and Timo Saaralinen both played.  Timo was a native of Finland, and I believe one or two other players or coaches had been on missions to Finland, so the team used to call out inbounds plays in Finnish, which pretty much made it indecipherable by the opposing scholar/athletes.</p>
<p>Things like that don&#8217;t always work, especially in Utah.  There is the true story of two Finnish tourists who got pulled over in Sandy after an illegal u-turn, and feigned not knowing English by speaking only in Finnish.  The cop who pulled them over happened to have served in Finland, and replied in fluent Finnish that their turn was illegal in any language.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4860</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bud,

I also recall hearing that when the Mexico City temple was opened, the films were delivered in person, but had considerable footage of a boring organ recital put on the front end, so if anyone lost/stole the films, they would likely give up viewing after a few minutes, and not get to the good stuff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bud,</p>
<p>I also recall hearing that when the Mexico City temple was opened, the films were delivered in person, but had considerable footage of a boring organ recital put on the front end, so if anyone lost/stole the films, they would likely give up viewing after a few minutes, and not get to the good stuff.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: XiGauss</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/12/11/%e2%80%9cthe-qmlbwpnygax-eujugec-have-not-the-power-to-ktgjie-the-wzznlhmpygtg%e2%80%9d-codes-and-ciphers-in-mormon-history-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-4859</link>
		<dc:creator>XiGauss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=483#comment-4859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David Kahn&#039;s book &lt;i&gt;The Codebreakers: The Comprehensive History of Secret Communication from Ancient Times to the Internet&lt;/i&gt; is probably the best book on the history of cryptography.  Simon Singh&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Code Book&lt;/i&gt; is a more readable history.  A lot of what I know about the history of cryptography comes from those sources, with a little coming from cryptography textbooks such as Trappe/Washington or Stallings.

I don&#039;t have Kahn&#039;s book in front of me right now, but Singh&#039;s chapter on the Vigenère cipher (of which &lt;i&gt;Larrabee&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; seems to be an example) states that Charles Babbage probably broke the cipher in 1854 but didn&#039;t publish his findings, and that Friedrich Wilhelm Kasiski independently published a solution in 1863.  However, Kasiski&#039;s work (in German) does not seem to have been widely known, and as late as 1917, &lt;i&gt;Scientific American&lt;/i&gt; still characterized this cipher as &quot;impossible of translation&quot; (Supplement LXXXIII, 1/27/1917, page 61, according to Trappe and Washington).  Thus, these solutions don&#039;t seem to have spread as quickly as the cipher did.

Of course, some of those who knew the solution would have had obvious motives to keep it secret, if they were using it to read others&#039; mail.  Tracking the history of cryptography can be difficult, since there are so many secrets involved.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Kahn&#8217;s book <i>The Codebreakers: The Comprehensive History of Secret Communication from Ancient Times to the Internet</i> is probably the best book on the history of cryptography.  Simon Singh&#8217;s <i>The Code Book</i> is a more readable history.  A lot of what I know about the history of cryptography comes from those sources, with a little coming from cryptography textbooks such as Trappe/Washington or Stallings.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have Kahn&#8217;s book in front of me right now, but Singh&#8217;s chapter on the Vigenère cipher (of which <i>Larrabee&#8217;s</i> seems to be an example) states that Charles Babbage probably broke the cipher in 1854 but didn&#8217;t publish his findings, and that Friedrich Wilhelm Kasiski independently published a solution in 1863.  However, Kasiski&#8217;s work (in German) does not seem to have been widely known, and as late as 1917, <i>Scientific American</i> still characterized this cipher as &#8220;impossible of translation&#8221; (Supplement LXXXIII, 1/27/1917, page 61, according to Trappe and Washington).  Thus, these solutions don&#8217;t seem to have spread as quickly as the cipher did.</p>
<p>Of course, some of those who knew the solution would have had obvious motives to keep it secret, if they were using it to read others&#8217; mail.  Tracking the history of cryptography can be difficult, since there are so many secrets involved.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
