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	<title>Comments on: Be Ye Perfect, Even as Mantua Ward Was Perfect</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3950</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#12 &amp; #14 - Amen.  

(and I apologize, Ardis, if I contributed to what you mention.  I didn&#039;t mean to do so, but re-reading it . . .)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12 &amp; #14 &#8211; Amen.  </p>
<p>(and I apologize, Ardis, if I contributed to what you mention.  I didn&#8217;t mean to do so, but re-reading it . . .)</p>
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		<title>By: Ostrich</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3938</link>
		<dc:creator>Ostrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder what the effect this consistent home teaching has had on the good gospel outcomes in the ward?  I bet there is a correspondingly high percentage of endowed members, full tithe payers, young men that serve missions, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what the effect this consistent home teaching has had on the good gospel outcomes in the ward?  I bet there is a correspondingly high percentage of endowed members, full tithe payers, young men that serve missions, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3923</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I was visiting family in Utah yesterday--on Home Teaching Sunday (it was the last Sunday of the month), I got to sit in briefly on two different home teaching visits.  If only I had found my in-laws at home, maybe I could have hit the trifecta.

As perfunctory as the second of those visits seemed to be, I was moved by the efforts made by the home teacher to visit my parents and the simple, but faithful prayer he offered on their behalf at the end of the visit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I was visiting family in Utah yesterday&#8211;on Home Teaching Sunday (it was the last Sunday of the month), I got to sit in briefly on two different home teaching visits.  If only I had found my in-laws at home, maybe I could have hit the trifecta.</p>
<p>As perfunctory as the second of those visits seemed to be, I was moved by the efforts made by the home teacher to visit my parents and the simple, but faithful prayer he offered on their behalf at the end of the visit.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3922</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3922</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, faking stats is wrong. Yes, meaningless visits solely for the sake of stats is bad.

But please note, all, that there is zero suggestion that Mantua&#039;s stats were faked. It&#039;s also unnecessarily cynical to assume that visits were made only to say that the job was done.

(My home teachers visit every month, and it&#039;s a real, see that I&#039;m okay, give me a lesson, home teaching visit. Their stats aren&#039;t faked, and their visits aren&#039;t perfunctory. I know it can be done!)

If you were a bishop or EQP, wouldn&#039;t it be easier to work on putting content into the visits if your home teachers were actually making the visits, than otherwise? I mean, at least you wouldn&#039;t have to nag them constantly to get out the door and visit their assigned families, so you could move on to the next level, couldn&#039;t you?

I&#039;m a little regretful that this has turned into another everything-that-is-wrong-with-hometeaching thread. I really thought it was kinda fun, kinda strange, that an entire ward was so invested in the program that they went to these extraordinary lengths. If Mantua&#039;s stats were faked, some cynical person sometime during those 44 years would have made sure everyone else in the ward knew. If the visits were not productive of some kind of good, they would have slipped up much, much earlier. That&#039;s human nature.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, faking stats is wrong. Yes, meaningless visits solely for the sake of stats is bad.</p>
<p>But please note, all, that there is zero suggestion that Mantua&#8217;s stats were faked. It&#8217;s also unnecessarily cynical to assume that visits were made only to say that the job was done.</p>
<p>(My home teachers visit every month, and it&#8217;s a real, see that I&#8217;m okay, give me a lesson, home teaching visit. Their stats aren&#8217;t faked, and their visits aren&#8217;t perfunctory. I know it can be done!)</p>
<p>If you were a bishop or EQP, wouldn&#8217;t it be easier to work on putting content into the visits if your home teachers were actually making the visits, than otherwise? I mean, at least you wouldn&#8217;t have to nag them constantly to get out the door and visit their assigned families, so you could move on to the next level, couldn&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a little regretful that this has turned into another everything-that-is-wrong-with-hometeaching thread. I really thought it was kinda fun, kinda strange, that an entire ward was so invested in the program that they went to these extraordinary lengths. If Mantua&#8217;s stats were faked, some cynical person sometime during those 44 years would have made sure everyone else in the ward knew. If the visits were not productive of some kind of good, they would have slipped up much, much earlier. That&#8217;s human nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd the Wonderdog</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3921</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd the Wonderdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my Orem ward, the bishop announced in Priesthood Meeting that the ward had had 100% Home Teaching for TWO MONTHS!!!

I raised my hand and asked how that could be since I had not been home taught for SIX MONTHS??

My HT was the Elder&#039;s Quorum President and is rather well known in the Mormon community. The pressure of achieving 100% Home Teaching influenced his decision to falsify the records. So, when I became EQP and then again as Bishop, I stressed to the Home Teachers that accurate, honest records were more important than impressive numbers. I wanted to know who was going for periods of time without contact. I didn&#039;t want people to feel that they had dropped off the church&#039;s radar, that no one cared.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my Orem ward, the bishop announced in Priesthood Meeting that the ward had had 100% Home Teaching for TWO MONTHS!!!</p>
<p>I raised my hand and asked how that could be since I had not been home taught for SIX MONTHS??</p>
<p>My HT was the Elder&#8217;s Quorum President and is rather well known in the Mormon community. The pressure of achieving 100% Home Teaching influenced his decision to falsify the records. So, when I became EQP and then again as Bishop, I stressed to the Home Teachers that accurate, honest records were more important than impressive numbers. I wanted to know who was going for periods of time without contact. I didn&#8217;t want people to feel that they had dropped off the church&#8217;s radar, that no one cared.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark D.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3919</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 05:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The solution to a problem like this is simple.  Transfer the membership to the ward where the member is planning to be for several months.  

Then the other ward would have the responsibility of looking after the welfare of the visiting member (as they should) and the record would correctly indicate that all families that lived within the boundaries of the original ward were visited.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The solution to a problem like this is simple.  Transfer the membership to the ward where the member is planning to be for several months.  </p>
<p>Then the other ward would have the responsibility of looking after the welfare of the visiting member (as they should) and the record would correctly indicate that all families that lived within the boundaries of the original ward were visited.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3916</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 04:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Moot at the global level, perhaps, but not moot at the local level, unfortunately.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moot at the global level, perhaps, but not moot at the local level, unfortunately.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3913</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 03:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ray, Only families assigned to be hometaught are counted in MLS, from what I understand. If only one family were assigned and home taught every month, the Quorum would have 100% HT. But Church headquarters takes number of families HT, not percent HT, so it&#039;s moot anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray, Only families assigned to be hometaught are counted in MLS, from what I understand. If only one family were assigned and home taught every month, the Quorum would have 100% HT. But Church headquarters takes number of families HT, not percent HT, so it&#8217;s moot anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3909</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Honestly, without a whole lot more information about how the HT is done I can&#039;t applaud or criticize it.  I want to applaud the overall focus and dedication to the program, but the literalness/exactness of the need to have an authority figure decide if a phone contact of someone out-of-state is acceptable really bothers me.  

I remember being moved deeply by hearing of Dale Murphy&#039;s dedication to HT as a professional baseball player - how he would call his assigned families from wherever he was playing around the country during his down time and talk for long periods of time with each and every family member.  It was everything he could do in his situation during the season, and his families understood and loved him for it.  

&lt;strong&gt;**Can of worms warning** &lt;/strong&gt; (Ignore if desired.)  

Likewise, I wonder often if we should count as visited those who explicitly ask for no contact - if and only if we honor their wishes and do nothing but send a periodic note asking if anything has changed.  The spirit of the program often is explained as providing what the families want and need, even if that is different than the standard monthly visit.  We always allow for more visits; we often allow for fewer visits of active members who request it in order to free up a HT companionship to visit less- or in-active members (but still allow a visit to be counted in order to not skew the stats unfairly, as long as some verbal contact is made); etc.  I wonder sometimes how not honoring someone&#039;s wishes and showing up at a door uninvited and unannounced (or sending a card every single month just to report a visit) is better than honoring someone&#039;s wishes and sending a note annually.  Why should honoring a DNC request make it look like someone is doing a bad job?  

I understand the possibility of abuse, but . . . it&#039;s not an easy issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, without a whole lot more information about how the HT is done I can&#8217;t applaud or criticize it.  I want to applaud the overall focus and dedication to the program, but the literalness/exactness of the need to have an authority figure decide if a phone contact of someone out-of-state is acceptable really bothers me.  </p>
<p>I remember being moved deeply by hearing of Dale Murphy&#8217;s dedication to HT as a professional baseball player &#8211; how he would call his assigned families from wherever he was playing around the country during his down time and talk for long periods of time with each and every family member.  It was everything he could do in his situation during the season, and his families understood and loved him for it.  </p>
<p><strong>**Can of worms warning** </strong> (Ignore if desired.)  </p>
<p>Likewise, I wonder often if we should count as visited those who explicitly ask for no contact &#8211; if and only if we honor their wishes and do nothing but send a periodic note asking if anything has changed.  The spirit of the program often is explained as providing what the families want and need, even if that is different than the standard monthly visit.  We always allow for more visits; we often allow for fewer visits of active members who request it in order to free up a HT companionship to visit less- or in-active members (but still allow a visit to be counted in order to not skew the stats unfairly, as long as some verbal contact is made); etc.  I wonder sometimes how not honoring someone&#8217;s wishes and showing up at a door uninvited and unannounced (or sending a card every single month just to report a visit) is better than honoring someone&#8217;s wishes and sending a note annually.  Why should honoring a DNC request make it look like someone is doing a bad job?  </p>
<p>I understand the possibility of abuse, but . . . it&#8217;s not an easy issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/10/26/be-ye-perfect-even-as-mantua-ward-was-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-3904</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=386#comment-3904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[*I* didn&#039;t presume to judge what this says about us -- I left that to commenters, and you have not disappointed! :)

Do remember that, as Tatiana pointed out, it was a matter of community pride and everybody cooperated. There&#039;s no reason to think that there would have been any practical consequences for Sister Nelson had she stayed in Washington, beyond never being allowed to forget it, perhaps. She *chose* to cooperate with the team effort when nobody could have legitimately complained had she not done so.

Also, just because a ward has a high statistical rate of home teaching does not mean that the teaching that is done is poorly done.

Gee, I guess i did have an opinion after all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*I* didn&#8217;t presume to judge what this says about us &#8212; I left that to commenters, and you have not disappointed! <img src='http://www.keepapitchinin.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Do remember that, as Tatiana pointed out, it was a matter of community pride and everybody cooperated. There&#8217;s no reason to think that there would have been any practical consequences for Sister Nelson had she stayed in Washington, beyond never being allowed to forget it, perhaps. She *chose* to cooperate with the team effort when nobody could have legitimately complained had she not done so.</p>
<p>Also, just because a ward has a high statistical rate of home teaching does not mean that the teaching that is done is poorly done.</p>
<p>Gee, I guess i did have an opinion after all.</p>
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