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	<title>Comments on: An Occurrence at St. Mark&#8217;s Cathedral (Utah history)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/comment-page-1/#comment-319290</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 19:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=168#comment-319290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Check your email box, Kurt. I&#039;m very happy that you took time to leave this comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check your email box, Kurt. I&#8217;m very happy that you took time to leave this comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/comment-page-1/#comment-319255</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 18:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=168#comment-319255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m the historiographer for St. Mark&#039;s Cathedral and would love to know the source for this story, we certainly have forgotten it entirely!

The Very Reverend Samuel R Colladay had just been installed (as the Dean, not like a piece of furniture) in 1909 and this was likely one of the first things he had to deal with.

Both St. Mark&#039;s and First Presbyterian Church are made from red Utah sandstone, though their architectural styles are vastly different.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the historiographer for St. Mark&#8217;s Cathedral and would love to know the source for this story, we certainly have forgotten it entirely!</p>
<p>The Very Reverend Samuel R Colladay had just been installed (as the Dean, not like a piece of furniture) in 1909 and this was likely one of the first things he had to deal with.</p>
<p>Both St. Mark&#8217;s and First Presbyterian Church are made from red Utah sandstone, though their architectural styles are vastly different.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3026</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=168#comment-3026</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m clueless, Jeff -- the red stone building isn&#039;t St. Mark&#039;s? That&#039;s what I thought I was looking at in all the pictures I&#039;ve seen. (It&#039;s not on a bus route, so it might as well be in Poland for all the opportunity I have to see it in person.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m clueless, Jeff &#8212; the red stone building isn&#8217;t St. Mark&#8217;s? That&#8217;s what I thought I was looking at in all the pictures I&#8217;ve seen. (It&#8217;s not on a bus route, so it might as well be in Poland for all the opportunity I have to see it in person.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3023</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=168#comment-3023</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No Ardis, St. Mark&#039;s is on First South and the Cathedral of the Madeleine is on South Temple.  You are thinking of the Presbyterian Church  on South Temple and C Street.  St. Mark&#039;s is older than both of them.
The Episcopal Church has been building a extention on the back and the west side of St. Mark&#039;s.  It looks nearly finished.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Ardis, St. Mark&#8217;s is on First South and the Cathedral of the Madeleine is on South Temple.  You are thinking of the Presbyterian Church  on South Temple and C Street.  St. Mark&#8217;s is older than both of them.<br />
The Episcopal Church has been building a extention on the back and the west side of St. Mark&#8217;s.  It looks nearly finished.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3001</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=168#comment-3001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The link worked just fine, Researcher; thanks. They should maybe rescan the street view in the winter!

Episcopal St. Mark&#039;s and the Catholic Cathedral of the Madeleine are next door to each other (separated by C Street) on South Temple. Beautiful neighborhood.

Bruce has heard something of the persistent rumor that Brigham Young was involved in land transactions for one of those churches. There is a little truth to that, although the story is often exaggerated in the telling: Before the building of the Cathedral (it was dedicated in August 1909), the parish of the Madelaine used a smaller church a few blocks away from the Cathedral. In the earliest days of Catholicism in Utah, while they were still raising money to build that earlier chapel, a cloud was discovered on the title to that land. Brigham Young testified that the Catholics had indeed paid for that lot and had every right to possess it, regardless of the garbled paperwork. That&#039;s the extent of his involvement. The memory of it is still in the air, and because the parish and the cathedral have the same name, people sometimes mistakenly say that Brigham Young arranged for, or even gave, the land for the Cathedral. Not so, but you can see where the confusion comes from.

Great story about your gggrandfather, Bruce; I won&#039;t go prowling around HIS property after dark! And Les Miserables is one of my favorite books (can I brag that I read it in French? on my mission? I called it language study). Thanks for your comments, Mark and kevinf -- and the next time you drive by St. Mark&#039;s, smile that you know a story no other passerby does!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The link worked just fine, Researcher; thanks. They should maybe rescan the street view in the winter!</p>
<p>Episcopal St. Mark&#8217;s and the Catholic Cathedral of the Madeleine are next door to each other (separated by C Street) on South Temple. Beautiful neighborhood.</p>
<p>Bruce has heard something of the persistent rumor that Brigham Young was involved in land transactions for one of those churches. There is a little truth to that, although the story is often exaggerated in the telling: Before the building of the Cathedral (it was dedicated in August 1909), the parish of the Madelaine used a smaller church a few blocks away from the Cathedral. In the earliest days of Catholicism in Utah, while they were still raising money to build that earlier chapel, a cloud was discovered on the title to that land. Brigham Young testified that the Catholics had indeed paid for that lot and had every right to possess it, regardless of the garbled paperwork. That&#8217;s the extent of his involvement. The memory of it is still in the air, and because the parish and the cathedral have the same name, people sometimes mistakenly say that Brigham Young arranged for, or even gave, the land for the Cathedral. Not so, but you can see where the confusion comes from.</p>
<p>Great story about your gggrandfather, Bruce; I won&#8217;t go prowling around HIS property after dark! And Les Miserables is one of my favorite books (can I brag that I read it in French? on my mission? I called it language study). Thanks for your comments, Mark and kevinf &#8212; and the next time you drive by St. Mark&#8217;s, smile that you know a story no other passerby does!</p>
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		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/comment-page-1/#comment-3000</link>
		<dc:creator>Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=168#comment-3000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I guess I&#039;m on google maps duty again. Hopefully the link to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=St+Mark%27s+Church+salt+lake+city&amp;layer=c&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=40.767859,-111.884326&amp;spn=0.00295,0.004109&amp;t=h&amp;z=18&amp;cbll=40.76719,-111.88449&amp;panoid=FWU4GghL3MP5c-rZj5cdoQ&amp;cbp=1,35.255915160214215,,0,5&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;St. Mark&#039;s Episcopal Cathedral&lt;/a&gt; works.

It is a rather distinctive building. It is a little tricky to see on the Street View because of the street trees.

Thanks for the fun story. We had the opportunity of watching some crooks at work one time while we lived in California and they showed about the same level of intelligence and careful planning that the fellow in this story did. They were about the same age, too. I doubt that the cops let them off with an admonition to repent, however.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I guess I&#8217;m on google maps duty again. Hopefully the link to the <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=St+Mark%27s+Church+salt+lake+city&amp;layer=c&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=40.767859,-111.884326&amp;spn=0.00295,0.004109&amp;t=h&amp;z=18&amp;cbll=40.76719,-111.88449&amp;panoid=FWU4GghL3MP5c-rZj5cdoQ&amp;cbp=1,35.255915160214215,,0,5" rel="nofollow">St. Mark&#8217;s Episcopal Cathedral</a> works.</p>
<p>It is a rather distinctive building. It is a little tricky to see on the Street View because of the street trees.</p>
<p>Thanks for the fun story. We had the opportunity of watching some crooks at work one time while we lived in California and they showed about the same level of intelligence and careful planning that the fellow in this story did. They were about the same age, too. I doubt that the cops let them off with an admonition to repent, however.</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/comment-page-1/#comment-2999</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=168#comment-2999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought of Jean Valjean and the Bishop as well.  I&#039;ve not been in St. Marks since I was a teenager, but I&#039;ve often driven past it on trips to back Utah.  I happened to drive past on our last trip just at the right angle for the evening sun to catch the red sandstone, and it just seemed to glow.  It&#039;s a great addition to Salt Lake&#039;s downtown architecture.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought of Jean Valjean and the Bishop as well.  I&#8217;ve not been in St. Marks since I was a teenager, but I&#8217;ve often driven past it on trips to back Utah.  I happened to drive past on our last trip just at the right angle for the evening sun to catch the red sandstone, and it just seemed to glow.  It&#8217;s a great addition to Salt Lake&#8217;s downtown architecture.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/comment-page-1/#comment-2998</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=168#comment-2998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Very Rev. Callady&#039;s words reminded me of that Bishop of D_______, who said, as he looked at Jean Valjean:

&quot;Ah! here you are!&quot; . . . &quot;I am glad to see you. Well, but how is this? I gave you the candlesticks too, which are of silver like the rest, and for which you can certainly get two hundred francs. Why did you not carry them away with your forks and spoons?&quot; 

And,

&quot;Jean Valjean, my brother, you no longer belong to evil, but to good. It is your soul that I buy from you; I withdraw it from black thoughts and the spirit of perdition, and I give it to God.&quot; 

Thanks for another great story, Ardis.  And thanks to Project Gutenberg for making the good Bishop&#039;s story easy to find.

If only we could learn that Rasmussen&#039;s story ended as well as Jean Valjean&#039;s!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Very Rev. Callady&#8217;s words reminded me of that Bishop of D_______, who said, as he looked at Jean Valjean:</p>
<p>&#8220;Ah! here you are!&#8221; . . . &#8220;I am glad to see you. Well, but how is this? I gave you the candlesticks too, which are of silver like the rest, and for which you can certainly get two hundred francs. Why did you not carry them away with your forks and spoons?&#8221; </p>
<p>And,</p>
<p>&#8220;Jean Valjean, my brother, you no longer belong to evil, but to good. It is your soul that I buy from you; I withdraw it from black thoughts and the spirit of perdition, and I give it to God.&#8221; </p>
<p>Thanks for another great story, Ardis.  And thanks to Project Gutenberg for making the good Bishop&#8217;s story easy to find.</p>
<p>If only we could learn that Rasmussen&#8217;s story ended as well as Jean Valjean&#8217;s!</p>
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		<title>By: BruceC</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/09/10/an-occurrence-at-st-marks-cathedral-utah-history/comment-page-1/#comment-2997</link>
		<dc:creator>BruceC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=168#comment-2997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is cool. I haven&#039;t seen St Marks Cathedral, but then I never lived in Salt Lake City. The pictures on their website just don&#039;t show enough. But I did find one picture elsewhere. Very nice.

I heard that Brigham Young arranged for land for at least one non-Mormon church in Utah. Was it this one by chance? It is very close to the temple.

I have &lt;a href=&quot;http://amateurmormonhistorian.blogspot.com/2008/06/charles-henry-crow-part-2-burglar-shot.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;story&lt;/a&gt; about when my great great grandfather who shot a burglar who afterwards felt the same remorse, albeit after it was too late. I noticed that when criminals were caught they used to feel bad for the wrong they did.  There are some notable exceptions, but they seem to be famous because of their lack of shame.

I don&#039;t see the same sense of shame today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is cool. I haven&#8217;t seen St Marks Cathedral, but then I never lived in Salt Lake City. The pictures on their website just don&#8217;t show enough. But I did find one picture elsewhere. Very nice.</p>
<p>I heard that Brigham Young arranged for land for at least one non-Mormon church in Utah. Was it this one by chance? It is very close to the temple.</p>
<p>I have <a href="http://amateurmormonhistorian.blogspot.com/2008/06/charles-henry-crow-part-2-burglar-shot.html" rel="nofollow">story</a> about when my great great grandfather who shot a burglar who afterwards felt the same remorse, albeit after it was too late. I noticed that when criminals were caught they used to feel bad for the wrong they did.  There are some notable exceptions, but they seem to be famous because of their lack of shame.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see the same sense of shame today.</p>
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