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	<title>Comments on: Who or What Are We Teaching?</title>
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	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2551</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2551</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The worst lesson manuals are those from the late 60&#039;s and 70&#039;s.  Oooo-weee they were bad.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The worst lesson manuals are those from the late 60&#8242;s and 70&#8242;s.  Oooo-weee they were bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve C.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2547</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2547</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding the earlier comments about lessons needing to be more flexible.  I agree that lessons can be quite rigid and uniform.  I also agree that more flexibility is needed to meet cultural and individual needs.  I have taught Aaronic Priesthood for the past several years in a small unit.  We laugh at the lesson manual when it calls for having the class divide into several groups.  When we might only have one or two young men in class this seems quite humorous.  Needless to say, we improvised a lot.

There is a downside to the flexibility, though.  That is when a teacher goed off on a tangent.  I have had a Sunday School that did that quit a bit.  He threw in political comments (usually extreme right-wing ideas).  He also bashed other religions and gays.  Many times these comments had no baring on the lesson.  This is something I think the Church could address if it still had in-service.

But as long as a lesson is doctrinally sound, I have no trouble with allowing the teacher latitude in how they present the lesson.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the earlier comments about lessons needing to be more flexible.  I agree that lessons can be quite rigid and uniform.  I also agree that more flexibility is needed to meet cultural and individual needs.  I have taught Aaronic Priesthood for the past several years in a small unit.  We laugh at the lesson manual when it calls for having the class divide into several groups.  When we might only have one or two young men in class this seems quite humorous.  Needless to say, we improvised a lot.</p>
<p>There is a downside to the flexibility, though.  That is when a teacher goed off on a tangent.  I have had a Sunday School that did that quit a bit.  He threw in political comments (usually extreme right-wing ideas).  He also bashed other religions and gays.  Many times these comments had no baring on the lesson.  This is something I think the Church could address if it still had in-service.</p>
<p>But as long as a lesson is doctrinally sound, I have no trouble with allowing the teacher latitude in how they present the lesson.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2545</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seems right on topic to me, Mark IV.

Even &quot;born teachers,&quot; if there is such a thing (I think there is, same as I think there are naturals at just about any skill), should be able to improve by being made conscious of techniques they use by instinct and learning new ones. Even if they can&#039;t, certainly we&#039;ve all seen enough dreadful &quot;teaching&quot; to know that &quot;born teachers&quot; are as rare as plug tobacco in Relief Society. I&#039;m for just about anything that teaches teachers to teach, or that teaches Sacrament Meeting speakers to speak.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems right on topic to me, Mark IV.</p>
<p>Even &#8220;born teachers,&#8221; if there is such a thing (I think there is, same as I think there are naturals at just about any skill), should be able to improve by being made conscious of techniques they use by instinct and learning new ones. Even if they can&#8217;t, certainly we&#8217;ve all seen enough dreadful &#8220;teaching&#8221; to know that &#8220;born teachers&#8221; are as rare as plug tobacco in Relief Society. I&#8217;m for just about anything that teaches teachers to teach, or that teaches Sacrament Meeting speakers to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark IV</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2544</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark IV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2544</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It has been a while since we had a discussion about gospel teaching in the bloggernacle (and I&#039;ll let Ardis decide if this is the time and place to have another one), but I think it is far from settled whether or not someone can be taught to be a good teacher.  Somebody can master the techniques and methodologies and still be a very mediocre teacher.  And somebody with an enthusiasm for the material and a love for the students in her class can be a great teacher, even if she has had no formal training.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been a while since we had a discussion about gospel teaching in the bloggernacle (and I&#8217;ll let Ardis decide if this is the time and place to have another one), but I think it is far from settled whether or not someone can be taught to be a good teacher.  Somebody can master the techniques and methodologies and still be a very mediocre teacher.  And somebody with an enthusiasm for the material and a love for the students in her class can be a great teacher, even if she has had no formal training.</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2543</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Researcher,

Teacher Development has ceased to be, and the responsibility for training teachers now resides with quorum and auxiliary presidencies, but no formal programs are in place anymore.  There are just some pretty short general booklets, and hardly any active training.

It seems to follow the model of having HC members referee basketball games because they are honest and obedient.  Oh wait, there are rules for this?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Researcher,</p>
<p>Teacher Development has ceased to be, and the responsibility for training teachers now resides with quorum and auxiliary presidencies, but no formal programs are in place anymore.  There are just some pretty short general booklets, and hardly any active training.</p>
<p>It seems to follow the model of having HC members referee basketball games because they are honest and obedient.  Oh wait, there are rules for this?</p>
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		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2542</link>
		<dc:creator>Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The statement about &quot;A&quot; students reminded me of the old advice to a university to be kind to your &quot;C&quot; students because they&#039;re going to be the ones coming back to donate money to the school. 

It&#039;s certainly true; my Academic Decathlon coach and AP English teacher in high school used to pull her hair out over one of the kids in the class who was &quot;so lazy&quot; and now he&#039;s one of the head of the school board on his reservation, an extremely wealthy land developer, and donating money to various causes. I&#039;ve always been glad that I got along well with him, because if I ever need a job in a hurry, I can undoubtedly call this former schoolmate, &quot;C&quot; grades in high school, funny clothes, and all.

Are there really no longer Teacher Development classes? I guess they haven&#039;t held them in our ward and we&#039;ve been here four years.

I know my parents were involved in the program when it came out &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=3b228e3c2344b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;hideNav=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;back in the 1970s&lt;/a&gt; and they both spoke very highly of the program, still had the manuals years later, applied its principles, and both have reputations as good teachers.

If teaching is an innate spiritual ability, it is a gift that is granted to few. The rest of the population of the church, me included, needs to work on it and not just go in to a class with an ego and maybe the lesson manual. (Thinking in particular of two teachers I knew a few wards back.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The statement about &#8220;A&#8221; students reminded me of the old advice to a university to be kind to your &#8220;C&#8221; students because they&#8217;re going to be the ones coming back to donate money to the school. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s certainly true; my Academic Decathlon coach and AP English teacher in high school used to pull her hair out over one of the kids in the class who was &#8220;so lazy&#8221; and now he&#8217;s one of the head of the school board on his reservation, an extremely wealthy land developer, and donating money to various causes. I&#8217;ve always been glad that I got along well with him, because if I ever need a job in a hurry, I can undoubtedly call this former schoolmate, &#8220;C&#8221; grades in high school, funny clothes, and all.</p>
<p>Are there really no longer Teacher Development classes? I guess they haven&#8217;t held them in our ward and we&#8217;ve been here four years.</p>
<p>I know my parents were involved in the program when it came out <a href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=3b228e3c2344b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;hideNav=1" rel="nofollow">back in the 1970s</a> and they both spoke very highly of the program, still had the manuals years later, applied its principles, and both have reputations as good teachers.</p>
<p>If teaching is an innate spiritual ability, it is a gift that is granted to few. The rest of the population of the church, me included, needs to work on it and not just go in to a class with an ego and maybe the lesson manual. (Thinking in particular of two teachers I knew a few wards back.)</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2541</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Teaching seems to be considered an innate spiritual ability anymore, as the whole concept of teacher training or inservice has mostly gone by the wayside, and by official direction.  No more teacher development classes, no more quarterly inservice meetings.

We still have good teachers, but they need to learn it elsewhere.  The materials you just showed us are typical of what I believe is needed.  While I like the current Joseph Smith manual for PH and RS as much better than its predecessors, I think it poses big problems for novice teachers, both in terms of historical context, and helping teachers to develop lesson plans.

Thanks for reminding us of a good part of our heritage that we don&#039;t see much of anymore.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teaching seems to be considered an innate spiritual ability anymore, as the whole concept of teacher training or inservice has mostly gone by the wayside, and by official direction.  No more teacher development classes, no more quarterly inservice meetings.</p>
<p>We still have good teachers, but they need to learn it elsewhere.  The materials you just showed us are typical of what I believe is needed.  While I like the current Joseph Smith manual for PH and RS as much better than its predecessors, I think it poses big problems for novice teachers, both in terms of historical context, and helping teachers to develop lesson plans.</p>
<p>Thanks for reminding us of a good part of our heritage that we don&#8217;t see much of anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2540</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I kind of agree with all of you. The JS manual *is* dry, I think in large part because the history in which the sermonettes are set is so lacking in color or interest -- you get only the surface who&#039;s and when&#039;s, and none of the more engaging how&#039;s and why&#039;s.  

And when teaching, I do like the minimalist lesson outlines. In fact, I really enjoy teaching the lessons based on assigned recent conference talks, where there is no outline at all. That forces me to consider what the apostle (or whoever) really was teaching, and how to present it, or which parts to present, to my atypical ward.

On the other hand, I may have an easier time doing that than many would because of the many, many explicit lessons on teaching that my mother taught me (beginning when I was still in Primary, she would explain to me what she was doing as she prepared her own lessons, took me with her to observe her teaching, then debriefed me about what had worked, or hadn&#039;t worked, and why; then began assigning me small pieces of her lessons to prepare and teach myself, with her advice, help, and critique. She was a master teacher, so whatever I absorbed from her put me ahead of the game). The how-to-teach lessons from the &lt;em&gt;Instructor&lt;/em&gt; would be useful to inexperienced teachers, possibly just clutter to others. Those techniques should be part of the inservice program -- is there such a thing anymore? Until a year or so ago, our ward had such meetings twice a year in connection with stake conference; then there was some announcement about their cancellation. 

How do young people, converts, and other new church teachers learn how to teach now?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I kind of agree with all of you. The JS manual *is* dry, I think in large part because the history in which the sermonettes are set is so lacking in color or interest &#8212; you get only the surface who&#8217;s and when&#8217;s, and none of the more engaging how&#8217;s and why&#8217;s.  </p>
<p>And when teaching, I do like the minimalist lesson outlines. In fact, I really enjoy teaching the lessons based on assigned recent conference talks, where there is no outline at all. That forces me to consider what the apostle (or whoever) really was teaching, and how to present it, or which parts to present, to my atypical ward.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I may have an easier time doing that than many would because of the many, many explicit lessons on teaching that my mother taught me (beginning when I was still in Primary, she would explain to me what she was doing as she prepared her own lessons, took me with her to observe her teaching, then debriefed me about what had worked, or hadn&#8217;t worked, and why; then began assigning me small pieces of her lessons to prepare and teach myself, with her advice, help, and critique. She was a master teacher, so whatever I absorbed from her put me ahead of the game). The how-to-teach lessons from the <em>Instructor</em> would be useful to inexperienced teachers, possibly just clutter to others. Those techniques should be part of the inservice program &#8212; is there such a thing anymore? Until a year or so ago, our ward had such meetings twice a year in connection with stake conference; then there was some announcement about their cancellation. </p>
<p>How do young people, converts, and other new church teachers learn how to teach now?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark IV</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2539</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark IV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Put me down as being in favor of very sparse, very minimal lesson outlines.  A lesson outline that gives lots of detail probably won&#039;t translate well to other cultures.  In my opinion, the thinner the manual, the better.  Notice how we went from detailed, memorized, word for word missionary discussions to the current approach.  This trend is inevitable as the church grows, I think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Put me down as being in favor of very sparse, very minimal lesson outlines.  A lesson outline that gives lots of detail probably won&#8217;t translate well to other cultures.  In my opinion, the thinner the manual, the better.  Notice how we went from detailed, memorized, word for word missionary discussions to the current approach.  This trend is inevitable as the church grows, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve C.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/08/20/who-or-what-are-we-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-2538</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=308#comment-2538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, if today&#039;s lesson manuals could be thorough!  Perhaps such an approach could be incorporated into teacher in-service lessons.

Very interesting post, as usual.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, if today&#8217;s lesson manuals could be thorough!  Perhaps such an approach could be incorporated into teacher in-service lessons.</p>
<p>Very interesting post, as usual.</p>
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