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	<title>Comments on: What Was Burned in the Privy Vault?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/</link>
	<description>Where our past is never very long ago</description>
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		<title>By: David G.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>David G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great find, Ardis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great find, Ardis.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-583</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s handy that we have a few such complete villains with utterly no redeeming qualities, isn&#039;t it, Ray? Anytime someone catches us with less than clean hands, we can always say, &quot;yeah, but what about HIM?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s handy that we have a few such complete villains with utterly no redeeming qualities, isn&#8217;t it, Ray? Anytime someone catches us with less than clean hands, we can always say, &#8220;yeah, but what about HIM?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-581</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;or that Drummond could tell the truth about anything to save his life.&quot;  

Now that is as appropriate an ending to a comment as I have ever read.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;or that Drummond could tell the truth about anything to save his life.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Now that is as appropriate an ending to a comment as I have ever read.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[john f. -- Part of the historical dispute has been whether any books were burned at all. Gentiles claimed that a valuable private law library and public court records were destroyed; it was shown very early that the court records were safe, which called into question whether the rest of the story had any truth or was merely another exaggerated tale of lawlessness in Utah. 

This paragraph shows that books *were* burned, that they were worth a considerable amount, that the destruction was not accidental (else &quot;volunteers&quot; would not have been called on to repay Stiles and Williams -- they were both relatively wealthy, so this is not like taking up a charitable collection for a poor family who has lost everything in a house fire), and that Brigham Young took an executive role in settling the matter (which suggests at least some degree of Mormon involvement, because BY did not normally get involved in private disputes between Gentiles -- it&#039;s not like this was an official gubernatorial action).

What it does *not* show is that Brigham Young or any other specific individual was involved in the riot (or however else you want to characterize the incident), or what the motive for the riot was, or that other claims of Mormon lawlessness were true, or that Drummond could tell the truth about anything to save his life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>john f. &#8212; Part of the historical dispute has been whether any books were burned at all. Gentiles claimed that a valuable private law library and public court records were destroyed; it was shown very early that the court records were safe, which called into question whether the rest of the story had any truth or was merely another exaggerated tale of lawlessness in Utah. </p>
<p>This paragraph shows that books *were* burned, that they were worth a considerable amount, that the destruction was not accidental (else &#8220;volunteers&#8221; would not have been called on to repay Stiles and Williams &#8212; they were both relatively wealthy, so this is not like taking up a charitable collection for a poor family who has lost everything in a house fire), and that Brigham Young took an executive role in settling the matter (which suggests at least some degree of Mormon involvement, because BY did not normally get involved in private disputes between Gentiles &#8212; it&#8217;s not like this was an official gubernatorial action).</p>
<p>What it does *not* show is that Brigham Young or any other specific individual was involved in the riot (or however else you want to characterize the incident), or what the motive for the riot was, or that other claims of Mormon lawlessness were true, or that Drummond could tell the truth about anything to save his life.</p>
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		<title>By: john f.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-577</link>
		<dc:creator>john f.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That was a little convulated, sorry.  Let me try to state it more clearly.

Is the assumption here that because BY mentions a settlement amount offered to TS Williams for books destroyed by fire, and that some of the settlement would go to Stiles&#039;s son if they can determine what share of the books were owned, that therefore it is true that Mormons burned the judge&#039;s books?  

I&#039;m open to the idea that some Mormons might have burned or damaged the judge&#039;s law library.  I&#039;m just not seeing how the strikethrough provides the missing link.  I suppose the logic is that offering settlement money for burned or damaged books is an expression of guilt?  That&#039;s fair enough -- I just thought it would be worth it to make that explicit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a little convulated, sorry.  Let me try to state it more clearly.</p>
<p>Is the assumption here that because BY mentions a settlement amount offered to TS Williams for books destroyed by fire, and that some of the settlement would go to Stiles&#8217;s son if they can determine what share of the books were owned, that therefore it is true that Mormons burned the judge&#8217;s books?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m open to the idea that some Mormons might have burned or damaged the judge&#8217;s law library.  I&#8217;m just not seeing how the strikethrough provides the missing link.  I suppose the logic is that offering settlement money for burned or damaged books is an expression of guilt?  That&#8217;s fair enough &#8212; I just thought it would be worth it to make that explicit.</p>
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		<title>By: john f.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-576</link>
		<dc:creator>john f.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-576</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post but sorry to be dense.  Could you point out to me where the BY letter says &quot;a mob seized the judge’s law library and papers, dumped them into an outhouse, and set it on fire&quot;?

In the strikethrough (perhaps I just can&#039;t read it properly because of the format) it appears that two individuals would be compensated for books destroyed by fire.  Is there some intuitive step that I&#039;m failing to make that ties the allegations by &quot;Utah&quot; in the New York Times to the strikethrough in the BY letter?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post but sorry to be dense.  Could you point out to me where the BY letter says &#8220;a mob seized the judge’s law library and papers, dumped them into an outhouse, and set it on fire&#8221;?</p>
<p>In the strikethrough (perhaps I just can&#8217;t read it properly because of the format) it appears that two individuals would be compensated for books destroyed by fire.  Is there some intuitive step that I&#8217;m failing to make that ties the allegations by &#8220;Utah&#8221; in the New York Times to the strikethrough in the BY letter?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-574</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glad to oblige, ma&#039;am.

But, hold your praise until I post a few more verses of my best Edgar A. Guest/James Whitcomb Riley imitations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to oblige, ma&#8217;am.</p>
<p>But, hold your praise until I post a few more verses of my best Edgar A. Guest/James Whitcomb Riley imitations.</p>
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		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah. I&#039;ve had my dose of culture for the day. Thanks, Mark B.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah. I&#8217;ve had my dose of culture for the day. Thanks, Mark B.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis E. Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Yes, it&#039;s easy for him to &lt;em&gt;claim&lt;/em&gt; that Brigham did it -- but has he found &#039;a smoking privy&#039; yet?&quot; /snicker/ I&#039;m so proud of Keepa&#039;s contribution to the culture ...

Researcher, call off the search for the Boy Scouts. I think we&#039;ve found our own Poet Laureate. Or somethin&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yes, it&#8217;s easy for him to <em>claim</em> that Brigham did it &#8212; but has he found &#8216;a smoking privy&#8217; yet?&#8221; /snicker/ I&#8217;m so proud of Keepa&#8217;s contribution to the culture &#8230;</p>
<p>Researcher, call off the search for the Boy Scouts. I think we&#8217;ve found our own Poet Laureate. Or somethin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2008/06/18/what-was-burned-in-the-privy-vault/comment-page-1/#comment-571</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keepapitchinin.org/?p=63#comment-571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What&#039;s burning in the vault,
Under the privy seat . . .

Not a boy scout, but irreverent about things that are not worthy of reverence, there are my first two lines.  To be sung to the tune of &quot;We Sail the Ocean Blue&quot; aka &quot;Who&#039;s on the Lord&#039;s Side.&quot;

Or

What&#039;s that ablaze in the old privy vault?
Scenes from my childhood come swiftly to mind,

Tune:  The Old Oaken Bucket, aka &quot;Do What is Right&quot;.

Rhymes for &quot;mind&quot; offer some good possibilities--especially &quot;wind.&quot;  Yeah, the sound&#039;s not there, but it looks right.  And the gross comedic possibilities are terrific.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s burning in the vault,<br />
Under the privy seat . . .</p>
<p>Not a boy scout, but irreverent about things that are not worthy of reverence, there are my first two lines.  To be sung to the tune of &#8220;We Sail the Ocean Blue&#8221; aka &#8220;Who&#8217;s on the Lord&#8217;s Side.&#8221;</p>
<p>Or</p>
<p>What&#8217;s that ablaze in the old privy vault?<br />
Scenes from my childhood come swiftly to mind,</p>
<p>Tune:  The Old Oaken Bucket, aka &#8220;Do What is Right&#8221;.</p>
<p>Rhymes for &#8220;mind&#8221; offer some good possibilities&#8211;especially &#8220;wind.&#8221;  Yeah, the sound&#8217;s not there, but it looks right.  And the gross comedic possibilities are terrific.</p>
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